|
Post by Cascadian Transport on Nov 1, 2011 16:32:11 GMT -8
I am a new member. This is literally my first post ever. But on with Elwha... I really like that ship. But does she HAVE to be on such an inconvenient route? (I live in Gig Harbor, WA.) Why can't they put her on Bremerton, Walla Walla at Kingston, Sealth on Clinton, Chelan on the international run, Hyak and Yakima on Anacordes - San Juans, E-state on inter-island? It would mean reduced capacity on Clinton and Bremerton, But it would actually increase capacity on the Anacordes - San Juan run.
|
|
|
Post by Kahloke on Nov 1, 2011 18:51:00 GMT -8
I am a new member. This is literally my first post ever. But on with Elwha... I really like that ship. But does she HAVE to be on such an inconvenient route? (I live in Gig Harbor, WA.) Why can't they put her on Bremerton, Walla Walla at Kingston, Sealth on Clinton, Chelan on the international run, Hyak and Yakima on Anacordes - San Juans, E-state on inter-island? It would mean reduced capacity on Clinton and Bremerton, But it would actually increase capacity on the Anacordes - San Juan run. Welcome to the Forum! I, too, live in Gig Harbor. A lot of us think that Elwha would be better suited to calmer waters down south, like on the Bremerton run. She is a very heavy boat and only has about 3 feet of freeboard which makes her not a very good handler when the weather gets rough. She is a bit overkill when it comes to the International run, especially this time of year, but keep in mind that 4 out of her 5 round-trips each day are domestic sailings between Anacortes and the islands, and they really do need a larger capacity vessel to handle the traffic. Question: why do you propose Sealth at Clinton? They currently have, and need, two Issaquah-124 vessels there. They actually could use a larger vessel there, at least during the summers, and will probably get one of the new 144's when the state starts building those ferries.
|
|
|
Post by Cascadian Transport on Nov 1, 2011 20:09:17 GMT -8
Here is the answer to your question, Kahloke: The Sealth would just be at Clinton until the Kittitas returns to service because it would be the only Issaquah 100 or Issaquah 130 avalible for Clinton.
|
|
|
Post by Kahloke on Nov 2, 2011 5:42:08 GMT -8
Here is the answer to your question, Kahloke: The Sealth would just be at Clinton until the Kittitas returns to service because it would be the only Issaquah 100 or Issaquah 130 avalible for Clinton. OK, I guess I misread your post. I thought you were talking about permanent vessel assignments, not the temporary situation we are in now. But, regarding the current conditions, I refer you back to my previous post where I mentioned how much the islands need Elwha's capacity for domestic traffic even if the International Run is dwindling in traffic levels. As for the Sealth, I would think that maintaining 2 124-car vessels at Mukilteo is critical with their traffic volumes, which means Chelan is the best fit there until Kittitas returns, and Sealth's Ana-SJI assignment is normal for this time of year. What is more surprising to me, and others here, is why they have not swapped Walla Walla and Hyak. Why is Hyak still at Kingston, and Walla Walla still at Bremerton?
|
|
|
Post by dumbthird on Nov 2, 2011 6:57:41 GMT -8
I asked a terminal "person" at Edmonds that same question a few days ago and he said that the Bremerton FAC gave Moseley a earful about how they get routinely short changed regarding vessel assignments, so maybe they are spreading it around a bit?
|
|
|
Post by Kahloke on Nov 2, 2011 8:12:37 GMT -8
I asked a terminal "person" at Edmonds that same question a few days ago and he said that the Bremerton FAC gave Moseley a earful about how they get routinely short changed regarding vessel assignments, so maybe they are spreading it around a bit? Perhaps, but now they are short-changing Edmonds/Kingston by giving them a vessel with 44 fewer car spaces; this on a route which sees higher vehicle loads than Bremerton. Regarding Bremerton, the complaint I have heard over and over again from passengers on that route is the lack of seats when WSF assigns an Issaquah-class vessel there. In all the years that I commuted to Seattle via the Bainbridge ferry, and once in a great while on the Bremerton ferry, I have never seen Bremerton's holding lot (for cars) filled to capacity, but they take a huge volume of passengers. Don't get me wrong, they do completely fill the vessel with cars during commuter hours, but I have never seen them get backlogged with multiple sailing waits in quite the same way Bainbridge and Kingston ferries get. I've said this before, but I still hold to my opinion that Bremerton really needs two Super-Class vessels there, or a Super and a Jumbo, for the passenger capacity. The Issy's are just too small for that route.
|
|
|
Post by Cascadian Transport on Nov 2, 2011 17:19:14 GMT -8
Now here is a suggestion for WSF: While she is out of service, upgrade the Kalletain to meet SOLAS requirements. Then they could send the Elwha to Bremerton. Although now that I think of it, they don't operate the Sydney run in the winter. I can't see the Yakima being upgraded, but they could upgrade the Hyak. According to the maintenance schedule, Hyak goes to Eagle Harbor when Kalletain returns to service. Although, the maintenance schedule is not always accurate... The point is, they should get the Hyak or Kalletain upgraded to SOLAS so they can get the Elwha to calmer water
|
|
|
Post by rusty on Nov 2, 2011 18:31:35 GMT -8
Now here is a suggestion for WSF: While she is out of service, upgrade the Kalletain to meet SOLAS requirements. Don't think that will ever happen.
|
|
|
Post by zargoman on Nov 2, 2011 19:18:02 GMT -8
I remember last time one of the boats needed to be in "calmer" waters. It was the Yakima and she was moved to Bremerton. We had a pretty nasty day and on her last arrival in Bremerton, she got blown off course and hit the unfinished marina and put a small hole in her side (2/7/2008)...The Snohomish, Victoria Express and Victoria Express II provided service along with the Kitsap for a few days. WSF made some changes for telegraph operated boats at Bremerton in regards to tie-up at the end of the night. They want telegraph operated boats (Supers) to use slip 1 as much as possible. (just some useless information that I find interesting). Yakima 59 Crashed by zargoman, on Flickr I would not mind having the Elwha at Bremerton for a little for some variety. If an Issaquah and a Super had to be there, I'd like the Yakima and Cathlamet, as I like their interior colors. But, as mentioned above, Bremerton people don't like the Issaquah boats. While I have never had a problem finding an open seat on the commuter trips, the cabin gets horribly stuffy and uncomfortable. Is the Elwha even able to carry as many pax as the other Supers when she is not on an international run?
|
|
|
Post by Steve Rosenow on Nov 2, 2011 22:41:01 GMT -8
I asked a terminal "person" at Edmonds that same question a few days ago and he said that the Bremerton FAC gave Moseley a earful about how they get routinely short changed regarding vessel assignments, so maybe they are spreading it around a bit? Perhaps, but now they are short-changing Edmonds/Kingston by giving them a vessel with 44 fewer car spaces; this on a route which sees higher vehicle loads than Bremerton. Regarding Bremerton, the complaint I have heard over and over again from passengers on that route is the lack of seats when WSF assigns an Issaquah-class vessel there. In all the years that I commuted to Seattle via the Bainbridge ferry, and once in a great while on the Bremerton ferry, I have never seen Bremerton's holding lot (for cars) filled to capacity, but they take a huge volume of passengers. Don't get me wrong, they do completely fill the vessel with cars during commuter hours, but I have never seen them get backlogged with multiple sailing waits in quite the same way Bainbridge and Kingston ferries get. I've said this before, but I still hold to my opinion that Bremerton really needs two Super-Class vessels there, or a Super and a Jumbo, for the passenger capacity. The Issy's are just too small for that route. Finally! Someone else agrees! I've said it before and I'll say it again and again. An Issaquah-class vessel does NOT belong on the Seattle-Bremerton Route. And the Walla Walla is much too big for that route this time of year. Time to do the right thing and send the Hyak down there! And for that matter, I will disagree with assessment of the Issaquah-class being the most versatile of the fleet. How the hell does a vessel class with absolutely NO outdoor promenade space save for two very short picklefork decks at each end classify as versatile given the fact WSF wants to tout them as being a tourist attraction? If I were to recommend a good ferry to cruise on I sure as hell wouldn't recommend an Issaquah-class vessel at all unless they did the right thing and opened up that Texas deck (not buying the 'noise and exhaust argument' since it'd be a shortened version of the Jumbo's Texas deck). Going back to the original intent, yeah... During the summer they need to avoid sending the Kitsap to Bremerton at all costs. I frequently traveled aboard on the Seattle-Bremerton run this year and on the times I ended up being aboard the Kitsap, it was standing room only. Pretty bad when on my last crossing on the Kitsap, passengers have to resort to sitting on the deck - even the pickleforks were full! Ferry officials need to get the hint. It should be at LEAST two Supers or a Super and a Jumbo at all times.
|
|
|
Post by Steve Rosenow on Nov 2, 2011 22:46:06 GMT -8
Now here is a suggestion for WSF: While she is out of service, upgrade the Kalletain to meet SOLAS requirements. Then they could send the Elwha to Bremerton. Although now that I think of it, they don't operate the Sydney run in the winter. I can't see the Yakima being upgraded, but they could upgrade the Hyak. According to the maintenance schedule, Hyak goes to Eagle Harbor when Kalletain returns to service. Although, the maintenance schedule is not always accurate... The point is, they should get the Hyak or Kalletain upgraded to SOLAS so they can get the Elwha to calmer water Not likely. Rumors have swirled about here and from what I've heard at Bremerton that the Kaleetan is sitting to be a dedicated Bremerton boat for a while. You'll notice she hardly spent any time at all up in the islands this year (maybe a month?) before she was sent back to Bremerton. Which is fine by me. I'll gladly take the Kaleetan over having to practically sit on a railing or a wet deck on the Kitsap.
|
|
|
Post by Barnacle on Nov 3, 2011 4:03:37 GMT -8
Now here is a suggestion for WSF: While she is out of service, upgrade the Kalletain to meet SOLAS requirements. Then they could send the Elwha to Bremerton. Why should WSF spend $20-25 million that they don't have to duplicate something that they already do have? And remember, you're dealing with what was originally an identical vessel. You'd very likely end up with the same results... a boat which is more top-heavy and lower in the water. Oh, and the Elwha has a minimum of five feet of freeboard, which I grant you still isn't much. Again, WSF would be spending $20-25 million it doesn't have to replicate something that they already do have (and don't have a tremendous amount of use for, either). The Issaquah-130s are considered the most versatile vessels in the fleet because they can sit in on any run, keep any schedule written, and minimize service impacts on all but two runs. Your complaint about the absence of exterior space on the vessel is, I am sorry to say, strictly aesthetic.
|
|
|
Post by EGfleet on Nov 3, 2011 4:39:29 GMT -8
If I were to recommend a good ferry to cruise on I sure as hell wouldn't recommend an Issaquah-class vessel at all unless they did the right thing and opened up that Texas deck (not buying the 'noise and exhaust argument' since it'd be a shortened version of the Jumbo's Texas deck). Okay,you don't buy it--and you base that on what? Ever been up there? As some one who has been up there many times it is NOT a place you'd want to spend strolling away a sunny afternoon--unless you want to go deaf and get covered in exhaust. It is LOUD up there, loud enough that in proximity of the funnels--which, frankly, is most of the deck--it's very difficult to carry on a conversation. Don't forget, you're dealing with different engine types. The Jumbos and Supers are a diesel electric set up--and far more quiet. The Issy's are are diesels and are far more loud. In the summer you can hear the Chelan coming toward the Anacortes dock pretty much as soon as it pops out of Thatcher Pass. It sounds like a train approaching (and there's a reason for that, either the same or very similar engines are used in trains.) The other critical bit of information you're overlooking is the proximity to the wheelhouse and crew quarters--all of which, were the decks to be opened to the public, would have to be caged in on either end. The easiest way to do that would be to just put a gate across at the aft end of each crew quarters, which would effectively limit most of your open deck space. In addition, any equipment up there that is deemed a security risk (safety equipment and the like) would also have to be fenced off. I'll agree promenade space is nice, especially in the summer. However, the primary function of the ferry system is to move people and cars across the water. Outdoor accommodations, particularly in a climate such as ours, isn't a primary concern. Not saying that is right or wrong--it's just how it is. I like the promenade decks on the boats too, but purely from a numbers crunching aspect, and of getting large numbers of people and vehicles across the water, it's not a big consideration. And I'll agree with you on another point too--Bremerton should have two Supers. I cannot count how many times when I commuted on that run how I ended up sitting outside on the shelter deck in the dead of winter because the passenger cabin was full. That was when TWO Issquahs on the run as was normal--the Kitsap and Sealth. Oh, and two passenger only boats too. Ha, I forgot about them. Anyway, I was told by WSF that there should have been plenty of room as the boat had a capacity for 1200 people. Well, that's a lie. It can carry that many, but that number, I later found out, is taken from the number of life jackets on board. Actually seating on the Kitsap? About 600. And on the 6:25 sailing out of Bremerton and the 5:30 on the way home (or whatever is is now.) Those seats are GONE.
|
|
|
Post by Kahloke on Feb 4, 2012 11:29:46 GMT -8
What's going on with Elwha today? The schedule lists Evergreen as one of the mainline boats and Elwha is not even on the schedule. Right now it is just sitting at Anacortes, and there's nothing in the WSF service bulletins. What's up
|
|
|
Post by Cascadian Transport on Feb 4, 2012 11:46:15 GMT -8
What's going on with Elwha today? The schedule lists Evergreen as one of the mainline boats and Elwha is not even on the schedule. Right now it is just sitting at Anacortes, and there's nothing in the WSF service bulletins. What's up I would be willing to bet that it is a mechanical issue of some sort on my favorite vessel. Why it is not appearing in the service bulletins, I don't know. Barnacle, do you know?
|
|
|
Post by Barnacle on Feb 4, 2012 14:48:32 GMT -8
What's going on with Elwha today? The schedule lists Evergreen as one of the mainline boats and Elwha is not even on the schedule. Right now it is just sitting at Anacortes, and there's nothing in the WSF service bulletins. What's up I would be willing to bet that it is a mechanical issue of some sort on my favorite vessel. Why it is not appearing in the service bulletins, I don't know. Barnacle, do you know? They were doing some sort of work below decks, and they had the opportunity to do so without having to bring another relief vessel up from Eagle Harbor (not that anything tied up in the Yard is really available at the moment anyway). I don't have any details on what was being done, but I suspect the Elwha will probably rejoin the fray come Monday morning, without any real impacts. As for the absence of boat-switch bulletins, I don't know if there was one or not. It doesn't impact actual traffic moved (the Evergreen can handle weekend traffic for the most part) so much as it does on time performance.
|
|
|
Post by Cascadian Transport on Feb 4, 2012 17:17:21 GMT -8
I did not see that on the maintenance schedule. The Evergreen is also running 45 minutes behind schedule.
|
|
|
Post by Barnacle on Feb 4, 2012 17:26:00 GMT -8
I did not see that on the maintenance schedule. The Evergreen is also running 45 minutes behind schedule. Not every little twitch appears on the maintenance schedule--it would be overcrowded and impossible to read. The graph doesn't really show moves of less than a week in duration, at least not that I've ever seen. (I'll admit I don't check it as often as I used to. Moreover, sometimes "planned" maintenance may have been "planned" earlier in the week. The maintenance schedule on the web doesn't always have time to catch up.
|
|
|
Post by Low Light Mike on Apr 8, 2012 20:23:17 GMT -8
A banner photo contest reject (Elwha loading at Sidney, December 2010)
|
|
|
Post by zargoman on May 5, 2012 7:40:51 GMT -8
Geeze...I did not realize how much of a smoker the Elwha is...She also sounds completely different from the other 3 supers. I like the way that the flooring was done, but the textured tiles are not good for dirt. As with other boats, the once uniform brown seating now has many various shades. I've never been on such a slow elevator.
|
|
|
Post by Barnacle on May 6, 2012 9:15:57 GMT -8
Geeze...I did not realize how much of a smoker the Elwha is...She also sounds completely different from the other 3 supers. Especially if #2 is on line. Something about that engine smokes harder than the others. As a deck project veteran, I never cared for those grooves either. It takes some pretty heavy stripping, but they will eventually come clean. To the dismay of current ordinaries, this mate also KNOWS that they will eventually come clean... if you work at it hard enough. That's why I don't take it unless I have to... sometimes it seems quicker to take the stairs.
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,281
|
Post by Neil on May 30, 2012 17:18:40 GMT -8
Today was the first day that I've ever heard a ferry crewperson go "Sshh! Sshh!" at the start of a PA announcement about disembarking.
The Elwha's 10:35 departure from Anacortes was, umm, blessed with three busloads of very excited elementary kids who pretty much made the promenade lounge their territory.
I don't know if the librarian like admonishment was heard, but all concerned seemed to get off at the intended island.
And what's up with that KIRO sports guy doing the leaving dock recorded announcements? Is that a promo that WSF makes a bit of money off?
|
|
|
Post by zargoman on May 30, 2012 19:16:21 GMT -8
There's a bunch of Seattle TV/radio people who do the safety message. They did that several years ago...the new boats have a different voice patched in when it describes the locations of the lifejackets. I think they could use a new batch of voices.
|
|
|
Post by EGfleet on May 31, 2012 4:18:16 GMT -8
There's a bunch of Seattle TV/radio people who do the safety message. They did that several years ago...the new boats have a different voice patched in when it describes the locations of the lifejackets. I think they could use a new batch of voices. It was done to get people to pay attention. By switching up the voices instead of the using the same voice for every recording, people are less likely to tune it out. If you hear the same voice day in and day out, which, as a former commuter I can attest to--you do ignore it completely. From your reaction Neil, it seems like the announcements work just like they are supposed to! That being said, I don't mind any of the news folks, sports newscasters, the Governor, etc...but Ciscoe Morris drives me crazy.
|
|
|
Post by Barnacle on May 31, 2012 15:19:03 GMT -8
From your reaction Neil, it seems like the announcements work just like they are supposed to! That being said, I don't mind any of the news folks, sports newscasters, the Governor, etc...but Ciscoe Morris drives me crazy. I don't think all the boats have Ciscoe Morris, thankfully. I miss the Dave Niehaus announcement, though. We stopped using it after the Great One passed away.
|
|