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Post by EGfleet on Jan 21, 2020 6:40:04 GMT -8
Tuesday Jan 21st is Maritime Lobby Day in Olympia. All the major seafarer unions will be there including mine the MEBA. The Governors Financial Budget does not currently have any money dedicated to the repairs of the Elwha. The MEBA will be pushing hard to keep the Elwha running because of the huge negative impact to the 2020 WSF Summer Schedule and the loss of engine room billets should she be decommissioned. This would leave just the Chelan as the only SOLAS boat remaining. The Chelan is too small to handle the big load of summer international travelers. It will be interesting to see if you can actually get "blood out of a stone" as the saying goes and Gov. Inslee steps up with the additional funding. Olympic Ferris could be "right on the money" here if it does happen. Good news for all. Chelan has been operating the international route in the summers for the last 15+ years or so, give or take. There was a downturn in traffic for a little while, probably during the recession in the 2008-2011 period, and I imagine the traffic has been steadily increasing since then. Perhaps we are finally getting to a time when a vessel with Elwha's capacity would be useful for the two Sidney runs on the summer schedule, but as far as I know, Chelan has been handling it fine. Elwha's capacity was more needed in the spring and fall when 4 out of its 5 daily round trips were domestic sailings, and even on the 1 round trip to Sidney, it provided service between Friday Harbor and Anacortes. It's not ideal, but Chelan can probably soldier on as the lone SOLAS vessel for a few years until the next set of new-builds are completed. If the state plans on keeping Sidney, it would be nice if the next new vessel is SOLAS compliant to directly replace Elwha - don't know if that's possible at this point. You beat me to it--I was about to say the Chelan has been operating summers for years with no issues at all. It's a huge uphill battle to save the Elwha at this point. I encourage anyone who is interested to watch Roger Millar's State of the State Transportation presentation to the House and Senate which should be available on TVW. (www.twv.org) which paints a very bleak picture of the state's transportation system overall. Basically, the state as never recovered from the first $30 tab initiative twenty years ago.
As for the Elwha, he states flat out, and I'm paraphrasing here, you'll have to watch the testimony for the exact quote, but that the cost of repairing the Elwha exceeds its value to the ferry system.
Retiring the Elwha means the state doesn't have to come up with roughly $33 million (last cost estimate I heard) it already doesn't have. It's low-hanging fruit for cost savings. I have a suspicion that no amount of lobbying is going to save it at this point.
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Jan 21, 2020 15:57:27 GMT -8
Chelan has been operating the international route in the summers for the last 15+ years or so, give or take. There was a downturn in traffic for a little while, probably during the recession in the 2008-2011 period, and I imagine the traffic has been steadily increasing since then. Perhaps we are finally getting to a time when a vessel with Elwha's capacity would be useful for the two Sidney runs on the summer schedule, but as far as I know, Chelan has been handling it fine. Elwha's capacity was more needed in the spring and fall when 4 out of its 5 daily round trips were domestic sailings, and even on the 1 round trip to Sidney, it provided service between Friday Harbor and Anacortes. It's not ideal, but Chelan can probably soldier on as the lone SOLAS vessel for a few years until the next set of new-builds are completed. If the state plans on keeping Sidney, it would be nice if the next new vessel is SOLAS compliant to directly replace Elwha - don't know if that's possible at this point. You beat me to it--I was about to say the Chelan has been operating summers for years with no issues at all. It's a huge uphill battle to save the Elwha at this point. I encourage anyone who is interested to watch Roger Millar's State of the State Transportation presentation to the House and Senate which should be available on TVW. (www.twv.org) which paints a very bleak picture of the state's transportation system overall. Basically, the state as never recovered from the first $30 tab initiative twenty years ago.
As for the Elwha, he states flat out, and I'm paraphrasing here, you'll have to watch the testimony for the exact quote, but that the cost of repairing the Elwha exceeds its value to the ferry system.
Retiring the Elwha means the state doesn't have to come up with roughly $33 million (last cost estimate I heard) it already doesn't have. It's low-hanging fruit for cost savings. I have a suspicion that no amount of lobbying is going to save it at this point.
I definitely agree here that what's inevitable is inevitable at this point, and that the $33 million (scary estimate, isn't it) is not worth scrounging up from other projects within the budget. It definitely sucks to have the Chelan at Sidney in the summer but the Elwha has not been the Sidney ferry in the summer in years, so that doesn't seem to be a valid argument as the Chelan takes it without issue.
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Post by iceberg1 on Jan 23, 2020 14:28:23 GMT -8
Elwha...she's gone. From Roger Millar's "State of Transportation" address at the start of 2020 Legislative Session, "To preserve current service, the governor’s supplemental budget proposal makes an additional investment to WSF’s operating budget. Because of the extensive steel work and deferred maintenance necessary to keep the Elwha in service, the governor’s budget proposes to retire the 52-year-old vessel, which has been out of service for several months." Really sad news for the ole' girl indeed but I think we all had a feeling it was coming and necessary. Good news is extra budget money is to be released to maintain our current level of service.
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Post by Kahloke on Jan 23, 2020 14:47:08 GMT -8
Elwha...she's gone. From Roger Millar's "State of Transportation" address at the start of 2020 Legislative Session, "To preserve current service, the governor’s supplemental budget proposal makes an additional investment to WSF’s operating budget. Because of the extensive steel work and deferred maintenance necessary to keep the Elwha in service, the governor’s budget proposes to retire the 52-year-old vessel, which has been out of service for several months." Really sad news for the ole' girl indeed but I think we all had a feeling it was coming and necessary. Good news is extra budget money is to be released to maintain our current level of service. Essentially confirming the outcome we all predicted. Thanks for the report.
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MV Elwha
Jan 23, 2020 17:55:40 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by Olympic Ferries on Jan 23, 2020 17:55:40 GMT -8
Elwha...she's gone. From Roger Millar's "State of Transportation" address at the start of 2020 Legislative Session, "To preserve current service, the governor’s supplemental budget proposal makes an additional investment to WSF’s operating budget. Because of the extensive steel work and deferred maintenance necessary to keep the Elwha in service, the governor’s budget proposes to retire the 52-year-old vessel, which has been out of service for several months." Really sad news for the ole' girl indeed but I think we all had a feeling it was coming and necessary. Good news is extra budget money is to be released to maintain our current level of service. Essentially confirming the outcome we all predicted. Thanks for the report. Definitely not surprised. Hope they'll finally move forward with that decision and get it over with for the rest of us. I'd be immensely surprised if they can come up (fairly justified, of course) with how to procure $33 million in funds.
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Feb 7, 2020 10:41:04 GMT -8
Was informed yesterday by WSF that the Elwha is current undergoing a Coast Guard Evaluation and Inspection up at Anacortes that is required to maintain her operating certificate; if any repairs are to move forward, this certificate will be required. More info to come soon. WSF will not commit to a specific cost for repairs until the Coast Guard does a full structural evaluation starting next week.
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Feb 10, 2020 17:31:55 GMT -8
WSF has had the Elwha moved from Anacortes to Dakota Creek to begin the evaluation by the Coast Guard to determine cost of any repairs to be done. They will strictly be inspecting vessel structure above the waterline as this is not an out-of-water inspection by any means. Will have updates coming soon.
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Post by Barnacle on Feb 12, 2020 18:39:45 GMT -8
WSF has had the Elwha moved from Anacortes to Dakota Creek to begin the evaluation by the Coast Guard to determine cost of any repairs to be done. They will strictly be inspecting vessel structure above the waterline as this is not an out-of-water inspection by any means. Will have updates coming soon.
The Elwha isn't at Dakota Creek; it's at the Anacortes Port Dock, next door. As far as I know Dakota Creek Industries isn't involved in any way. And the USCG doesn't determine cost, only scope.
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Feb 19, 2020 10:14:15 GMT -8
Just updated by WSF that their inspection at Anacortes is now complete and that they are working with the Coast Guard to determine the inventory of needed vessel repairs. A cost estimate will follow next week.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Feb 19, 2020 17:50:50 GMT -8
Just updated by WSF that their inspection at Anacortes is now complete and that they are working with the Coast Guard to determine the inventory of needed vessel repairs. A cost estimate will follow next week. Why not save the money and put towards getting a new SOLAS vessel sooner? I personally think that Sidney route can be handle only by MV Chelan for next three years without back up because it seems like State may make a bad decision with keeping such an old vessel that has been causing headache over the past decade.
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MV Elwha
Feb 20, 2020 9:06:34 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by Olympic Ferries on Feb 20, 2020 9:06:34 GMT -8
Just updated by WSF that their inspection at Anacortes is now complete and that they are working with the Coast Guard to determine the inventory of needed vessel repairs. A cost estimate will follow next week. Why not save the money and put towards getting a new SOLAS vessel sooner? I personally think that Sidney route can be handle only by MV Chelan for next three years without back up because it seems like State may make a bad decision with keeping such an old vessel that has been causing headache over the past decade. I've been told they can't present a case for keeping or retiring the vessel without an up to date cost of repair estimate, which is currently in the process.
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Post by EGfleet on Feb 20, 2020 9:37:18 GMT -8
Why not save the money and put towards getting a new SOLAS vessel sooner? I personally think that Sidney route can be handle only by MV Chelan for next three years without back up because it seems like State may make a bad decision with keeping such an old vessel that has been causing headache over the past decade. I've been told they can't present a case for keeping or retiring the vessel without an up to date cost of repair estimate, which is currently in the process. I really can't see an avenue for the Elwha to come back to service at this point. All her certificates expired yesterday, save for her certificate of documentation. No SOLAS certification, no inspection certification. When that happens at WSF, the ferry just doesn't come back. Factor in that Roger Millar, head of the DOT--and there are few cheeses bigger than he--provided a budgetary battle plan that included retiring the Elwha back in January.
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Feb 20, 2020 19:31:40 GMT -8
I've been told they can't present a case for keeping or retiring the vessel without an up to date cost of repair estimate, which is currently in the process. I really can't see an avenue for the Elwha to come back to service at this point. All her certificates expired yesterday, save for her certificate of documentation. No SOLAS certification, no inspection certification. When that happens at WSF, the ferry just doesn't come back. Factor in that Roger Millar, head of the DOT--and there are few cheeses bigger than he--provided a budgetary battle plan that included retiring the Elwha back in January.
It just does not seem wise to make that kind of decision; WSF has yet to formally present any sort of alternative plan to life under 22 ferries for at least 6-7 years and there is a lot of questions that need to be answered. And they just got a full Coast Guard inspection that concluded on Tuesday, how does that mean they do NOT have an inspection certificate right now?
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Post by Barnacle on Feb 21, 2020 10:00:47 GMT -8
I really can't see an avenue for the Elwha to come back to service at this point. All her certificates expired yesterday, save for her certificate of documentation. No SOLAS certification, no inspection certification. When that happens at WSF, the ferry just doesn't come back. Factor in that Roger Millar, head of the DOT--and there are few cheeses bigger than he--provided a budgetary battle plan that included retiring the Elwha back in January.
It just does not seem wise to make that kind of decision; WSF has yet to formally present any sort of alternative plan to life under 22 ferries for at least 6-7 years and there is a lot of questions that need to be answered. And they just got a full Coast Guard inspection that concluded on Tuesday, how does that mean they do NOT have an inspection certificate right now? Because "having an inspection" doesn't always mean "passing an inspection," that's why. It's a lot more complicated than you're making it out to be. Besides... if you have three cars that need oil changes and one that needs a new transmission, and not enough money to fix them all, what's the best plan to make the maximum number of members of your household happy? There is no good answer; you have to pick the least crappy one.
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MV Elwha
Feb 23, 2020 0:49:27 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by R30A on Feb 23, 2020 0:49:27 GMT -8
I really can't see an avenue for the Elwha to come back to service at this point. All her certificates expired yesterday, save for her certificate of documentation. No SOLAS certification, no inspection certification. When that happens at WSF, the ferry just doesn't come back. Factor in that Roger Millar, head of the DOT--and there are few cheeses bigger than he--provided a budgetary battle plan that included retiring the Elwha back in January.
It just does not seem wise to make that kind of decision; WSF has yet to formally present any sort of alternative plan to life under 22 ferries for at least 6-7 years and there is a lot of questions that need to be answered. And they just got a full Coast Guard inspection that concluded on Tuesday, how does that mean they do NOT have an inspection certificate right now? Why at least 6-7 years? First hybrid is scheduled by years end 2022. Just keep the Tillikum, Kaleetan and Yakima when it comes. (And keep keeping them til there is an acceptable spare factor). Make the first hybrid for which such is feasible be SOLAS compliant, and absolutely baby the Chelan until the SOLAS boat comes in.
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Post by EGfleet on Feb 24, 2020 12:52:02 GMT -8
It just does not seem wise to make that kind of decision; WSF has yet to formally present any sort of alternative plan to life under 22 ferries for at least 6-7 years and there is a lot of questions that need to be answered. And they just got a full Coast Guard inspection that concluded on Tuesday, how does that mean they do NOT have an inspection certificate right now? Why at least 6-7 years? First hybrid is scheduled by years end 2022. Just keep the Tillikum, Kaleetan and Yakima when it comes. (And keep keeping them til there is an acceptable spare factor). Make the first hybrid for which such is feasible be SOLAS compliant, and absolutely baby the Chelan until the SOLAS boat comes in. The House just released their supplemental transportation budget. Contained with in the summary of the bill:
Another $4 million in savings is captured from taking the ferry Elwha out of service.
The senate is due with their budget tomorrow.
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Feb 24, 2020 14:40:28 GMT -8
Why at least 6-7 years? First hybrid is scheduled by years end 2022. Just keep the Tillikum, Kaleetan and Yakima when it comes. (And keep keeping them til there is an acceptable spare factor). Make the first hybrid for which such is feasible be SOLAS compliant, and absolutely baby the Chelan until the SOLAS boat comes in. The House just released their supplemental transportation budget. Contained with in the summary of the bill:
Another $4 million in savings is captured from taking the ferry Elwha out of service.
The senate is due with their budget tomorrow.
Sounds pretty official, and that we don't have an oust to any other situation at this point....
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Post by EGfleet on Feb 25, 2020 12:19:26 GMT -8
The House just released their supplemental transportation budget. Contained with in the summary of the bill:
Another $4 million in savings is captured from taking the ferry Elwha out of service.
The senate is due with their budget tomorrow.
Sounds pretty official, and that we don't have an oust to any other situation at this point.... ...and in the appropriation notes for the 2020 supplemental transportation budget from the Senate today:
10.Elwha Reduction Funding is reduced due to the retirement of the MV Elwha ferry.
(meaning they don't have to come up with the money to run the boat, so the money added to the budget is "reduced.")
So, the governor's budget, the house budget and now the senate budget all call for the retirement of the Elwha.
*** and an update in the Seattle Times today: Both proposals assume the ferry MV Elwha, with its mounting maintenance costs, would be retired, leaving only one other ferry certified to make international crossings from Anacortes to Sidney, British Columbia.
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Post by Starsteward on Feb 26, 2020 8:49:23 GMT -8
Sounds pretty official, and that we don't have an oust to any other situation at this point.... ...and in the appropriation notes for the 2020 supplemental transportation budget from the Senate today:
10.Elwha Reduction Funding is reduced due to the retirement of the MV Elwha ferry.
(meaning they don't have to come up with the money to run the boat, so the money added to the budget is "reduced.")
So, the governor's budget, the house budget and now the senate budget all call for the retirement of the Elwha.
*** and an update in the Seattle Times today: Both proposals assume the ferry MV Elwha, with its mounting maintenance costs, would be retired, leaving only one other ferry certified to make international crossings from Anacortes to Sidney, British Columbia.
Maybe it's time for the good folks of Washington State and the State of Alaska to goodness forbid, examine the BCFS model of doing business? Alaska is in a horrible situation, and I foresee Washington State continuing to be saddled with a never ending merry-go-round of just keeping pace, if not falling behind in their fleet renewal plans. The biggest obstacle I see in new vessel procurement is the 'build in America' edict but surely there are American shipyards that are able to produce quality vessels faster than what I see coming out of the Vigor yards in Alaska.
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Post by Kahloke on Feb 26, 2020 9:56:37 GMT -8
The biggest obstacle I see in new vessel procurement is the 'build in America' edict but surely there are American shipyards that are able to produce quality vessels faster than what I see coming out of the Vigor yards in Alaska. It's more than just "build in America" - the requirement is for vessels to be built in Washington. Sounds good for jobs but it typically comes with higher build costs to do it locally.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,281
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Post by Neil on Feb 26, 2020 21:09:46 GMT -8
...and in the appropriation notes for the 2020 supplemental transportation budget from the Senate today:
10.Elwha Reduction Funding is reduced due to the retirement of the MV Elwha ferry.
(meaning they don't have to come up with the money to run the boat, so the money added to the budget is "reduced.")
So, the governor's budget, the house budget and now the senate budget all call for the retirement of the Elwha.
*** and an update in the Seattle Times today: Both proposals assume the ferry MV Elwha, with its mounting maintenance costs, would be retired, leaving only one other ferry certified to make international crossings from Anacortes to Sidney, British Columbia.
Maybe it's time for the good folks of Washington State and the State of Alaska to goodness forbid, examine the BCFS model of doing business? Alaska is in a horrible situation, and I foresee Washington State continuing to be saddled with a never ending merry-go-round of just keeping pace, if not falling behind in their fleet renewal plans. The biggest obstacle I see in new vessel procurement is the 'build in America' edict but surely there are American shipyards that are able to produce quality vessels faster than what I see coming out of the Vigor yards in Alaska. Starsteward, I can't agree that the governance model for our marine transit systems matters much. BC Ferries, for instance, could be under the Department of Highways, or a crown corporation, or the present 'private' model. What matters, here or stateside, is how the government of the day regards the system that connects coastal communities. We've seen a sea change (small joke) in the fortunes of BC Ferries with the Horgan government. The three systems on the northwest coast of North America thrive or contract at the pleasure of their political masters. That supersedes whatever operating model is put in place, in my opinion.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Feb 26, 2020 23:09:50 GMT -8
Why at least 6-7 years? First hybrid is scheduled by years end 2022. Just keep the Tillikum, Kaleetan and Yakima when it comes. (And keep keeping them til there is an acceptable spare factor). Make the first hybrid for which such is feasible be SOLAS compliant, and absolutely baby the Chelan until the SOLAS boat comes in. The House just released their supplemental transportation budget. Contained with in the summary of the bill:
Another $4 million in savings is captured from taking the ferry Elwha out of service.
The senate is due with their budget tomorrow.
I hope that State of Washington puts that money towards new SOLAS Hybrid Olympic Class in 2022.
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Feb 27, 2020 9:56:36 GMT -8
The House just released their supplemental transportation budget. Contained with in the summary of the bill:
Another $4 million in savings is captured from taking the ferry Elwha out of service.
The senate is due with their budget tomorrow.
I hope that State of Washington puts that money towards new SOLAS Hybrid Olympic Class in 2022. With the next Olympic already slated more expensive than the previous four, it might at least be worth considering how much those upgrades would be, and whether its worth it or not.
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MV Elwha
Feb 27, 2020 10:49:32 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by Blue Bus Fan on Feb 27, 2020 10:49:32 GMT -8
I hope that State of Washington puts that money towards new SOLAS Hybrid Olympic Class in 2022. With the next Olympic already slated more expensive than the previous four, it might at least be worth considering how much those upgrades would be, and whether its worth it or not. But does Washington State Ferries need to SOLAS vessels? I think it would be cheaper just to built SOLAS into vessel and not convert one late.
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Post by Starsteward on Feb 27, 2020 15:09:16 GMT -8
Maybe it's time for the good folks of Washington State and the State of Alaska to goodness forbid, examine the BCFS model of doing business? Alaska is in a horrible situation, and I foresee Washington State continuing to be saddled with a never ending merry-go-round of just keeping pace, if not falling behind in their fleet renewal plans. The biggest obstacle I see in new vessel procurement is the 'build in America' edict but surely there are American shipyards that are able to produce quality vessels faster than what I see coming out of the Vigor yards in Alaska. Starsteward, I can't agree that the governance model for our marine transit systems matters much. BC Ferries, for instance, could be under the Department of Highways, or a crown corporation, or the present 'private' model. What matters, here or stateside, is how the government of the day regards the system that connects coastal communities. We've seen a sea change (small joke) in the fortunes of BC Ferries with the Horgan government. The three systems on the northwest coast of North America thrive or contract at the pleasure of their political masters. That supersedes whatever operating model is put in place, in my opinion. I'm aware that no procurement or operating system is far removed from government policies but as long as governing political regimes are in play it is up to the people they serve to deliver dependable services at a reasonable cost. Therefore, it is totally incumbent for the general electorates of all political divides to use the only tool we have to ensure that 'system friendly' political regimes are put in place to be held accountable for whatever policies emanate from those governing bodies. VOTE!
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