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Post by Mike on Jan 8, 2011 10:10:57 GMT -8
I took a trip on the New West the last time she was on route 30 and I thought this is the route she should be on! She is better suited for route 30. So it might be just me but I will always think that the Inspiration should be off route 30 and on route 1 or route 2 and another Coastal should be based out of Tsawwassen. That would make sense, as the main reason behind lifting and re-engining her was so she could work on Route 30.
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Post by Ferryman on Jan 8, 2011 11:34:25 GMT -8
Yes, I would agree the New West is better suited on Route 30. However, her amenities were setup with Route 1/2 in mind. The Seawest Lounge and Coastal Cafe express are wasted services on Route 30, since they aren't used on that route.
Honestly, I think she's more appropriate for supplemental service on Route 2 or 3.
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Post by Mike on Jan 8, 2011 12:02:22 GMT -8
Yes, I would agree the New West is better suited on Route 30. However, her amenities were setup with Route 1/2 in mind. The Seawest Lounge and Coastal Cafe express are wasted services on Route 30, since they aren't used on that route. Honestly, I think she's more appropriate for supplemental service on Route 2 or 3. I don't know. The Seawest Lounge sounds pretty deluxe for Route 3. Most passengers are used to just getting a hot meal. ;D
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Koastal Karl
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Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
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Post by Koastal Karl on Jan 8, 2011 14:28:36 GMT -8
Yeah well BC Ferries could of upgraded her without the Cafe Express and Sea West Lounge they could upgraded her to what the Nanaimo is like now. I think personally and have thought this from the begining that the Inspiration is a waste for route 30. The truckers seemed to have managed before the Inspiration was on route 30 when it was just the Alberni and New West!
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 11, 2011 12:30:36 GMT -8
Comment on the clarity of the wording of this service notice:
I think that it would be better information to the general travelling public to say "...and will be operating between the main car-deck and the main passenger deck only."
The general public has no idea what deck 2 or 4 is.
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Quatchi
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Engineering Officer - CCG
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Post by Quatchi on Jan 11, 2011 19:54:32 GMT -8
Yeah well BC Ferries could of upgraded her without the Cafe Express and Sea West Lounge they could upgraded her to what the Nanaimo is like now. I think personally and have thought this from the begining that the Inspiration is a waste for route 30. The truckers seemed to have managed before the Inspiration was on route 30 when it was just the Alberni and New West! Uhm, isn't the CI running on route 30 the most profitable ship in the fleet now due to her pulling a good portion of over height traffic off of route 1 and 2 because she has the good amenities. I also recall her having the most utilized car deck in the fleet as well, even though her passenger spaces are under utilized. Cheers,
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Post by lmtengs on Jan 11, 2011 21:08:59 GMT -8
Most times I'm on her, the car decks sure don't seem very well utilized: Half full upper, two-thirds full lower car deck. Might they call that 'well-utilized' since that means less weight (less cars=less weight) to sail with than with a full ship in rte. 1?
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jan 11, 2011 22:23:23 GMT -8
Uhm, isn't the CI running on route 30 the most profitable ship int he fleet now due to her pulling a good portion of over height traffic off of route 1 and 2 because she has the good amenities. I also recall he having the most utilized car deck int he fleet as well, even though her passenger spaces are under utilized. Cheers, Not so. This has come up before. Route 1 averages 75% vehicle capacity, route 30, 49%, according to the most recent report to the ferry commission. Route 30 makes a tiny profit on operations while route 1 is a cash cow. The CI is probably less profitable on route 30 than the 'Alberni, given her fuel consumption.
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Quatchi
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Post by Quatchi on Jan 11, 2011 23:27:00 GMT -8
Hmm, I knew it had come up before, but I guess I remembered it the other way around. I had thought that on average the higher number of trucks on the CI VS say the New Westminster easily compensated for her higher fuel consumption. Also, that the amenity draw of the CI moved trucks and private traffic from routes 1 and 2 to help spread the loads out.
Maybe having the CI on route 30 will relieve route 1 enough to allow BCF to do their twin Super C's in the off season plan.
I know route 1 is a cash cow, I think everyone knows that. If you look up cash cow in the dictionary it says "Route 1 - BC Ferries".
Cheers,
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jan 12, 2011 0:03:51 GMT -8
Hmm, I knew it had come up before, but I guess I remembered it the other way around. I had thought that on average the higher number of trucks on the CI VS say the New Westminster easily compensated for her higher fuel consumption. Also, that the amenity draw of the CI moved trucks and private traffic from routes 1 and 2 to help spread the loads out. You may be right about the added commercial capacity of the CI making up for the fuel piggery. It's only been in the last year or so that route 30 has moved (barely) into the realm of profitability; perhaps the CI has been the reason. Since 80-85% of the people onboard any given route 30 sailing are not truckers (BC Ferries stats), management was probably right in attempting to make travel on the route more comfortable with the new vessel. Hard to say what route 30's potential is, but currently, any vessel on it covers its costs with a bit to spare, at best.
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Post by gordon on Jan 12, 2011 7:28:59 GMT -8
Isn't comparing fuel consumption between The Alberni & the CI a bit of an apples to Oranges comparison because the CI is a bigger heavier ship.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 12, 2011 8:34:39 GMT -8
A lot of the ships are running behind schedule today, and I suspect that the main reason is that it was tough for crew to get to work, because of the snow on the roads.
I experienced that same thing on my bus commute, where buses were late because the drivers had a hard time getting from their homes to the bus yard.
Happy slush day on the coast....
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Quatchi
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Engineering Officer - CCG
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Post by Quatchi on Jan 12, 2011 9:28:33 GMT -8
Isn't comparing fuel consumption between The Alberni & the CI a bit of an apples to Oranges comparison because the CI is a bigger heavier ship. Definitely directly comparing fuel consumption is like comparing apples to oranges, but we were really considering profitability. I simply stated that even though the Albernie or New Westminster may burn less fuel per crossing than the CI they may not break even. But, the CI's added trucking space and added truck profit allows her to compensate for added fuel costs and even possibly turn a profit. Neil, I'm not surprised that 80-85% of the passengers aren't truckers, the CI fits 32 trucks, and you have what 1 maybe two guys/gals per truck, so maximum 64 truckers per sailing. Seems logical that its the commercial deck space that makes the money not the truckers themselves. and the added passenger amenities draws in the general public. Cheers,
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Post by gordon on Jan 12, 2011 9:50:07 GMT -8
The New West's vehicle capacity has be redcuced to 270 100 less vehicles than the CI that would create some significant capacity issues in the Summer.
Why did B.C. Ferries decrease her vehicle capacity?
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Post by Nickfro on Jan 12, 2011 10:07:48 GMT -8
A lot of the ships are running behind schedule today, and I suspect that the main reason is that it was tough for crew to get to work, because of the snow on the roads. I experienced that same thing on my bus commute, where buses were late because the drivers had a hard time getting from their homes to the bus yard. Happy slush day on the coast.... Even though it's not snowing anymore, looks like it isn't easy getting to the Nanaimo terminals. I don't think I have ever seen an official travel advisory for water pooling before. . .
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Post by hergfest on Jan 13, 2011 2:01:04 GMT -8
The New West doesn't have platforms and they only use 7 of the 8 lanes on the upper deck so one side has more room for trucks/SUVs. Its a tight fit with four lanes on one side.
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Post by lmtengs on Jan 13, 2011 16:30:38 GMT -8
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Post by Queen of Vancouver on Jan 14, 2011 13:07:52 GMT -8
i think it is stupid to put the M/V Nimpkish on the discovery coast anyways not enough room and cant take the weather
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 14, 2011 13:50:26 GMT -8
i think it is stupid to put the M/V Nimpkish on the discovery coast anyways not enough room and cant take the weather What's your suggested solution?
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Post by lmtengs on Jan 14, 2011 17:52:13 GMT -8
i think it is stupid to put the M/V Nimpkish on the discovery coast anyways not enough room and cant take the weather It's Winter, barely anyone's travelling the route, anyway! Also, keep in mind this isn't technically the Discovery Coast route. This route starts and ends in Bella Coola, while the Discovery Coast route starts and ends in Port Hardy. I doubt that any tourists are taking the route right now, as they'd have to drive all the way up to Bella Coola just to take the boat, so it's pretty much all residents on-board, and I'm sure there wouldn't be many of them. In my opinion, Nimpkish is definitely adequate for the route, at least during Wintertime.
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Post by WettCoast on Jan 14, 2011 18:44:02 GMT -8
The Nimpkish is adequate in terms of its size (perhaps more than adequate). In terms of its design, however, it is less than perfect as a winter boat on the Central Coast.
Having said that, though, this is the first time that I recall them cancelling a sailing while in service in this part of the world.
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Post by Kahloke on Jan 14, 2011 19:43:46 GMT -8
The Nimpkish is adequate in terms of its size (perhaps more than adequate). In terms of its design, however, it is less than perfect as a winter boat on the Central Coast. Not that BC Ferries is in any position to be procuring a vessel for that route, but I wonder if something similar in design to Alaska's IFA Ferries, Prince of Wales and Stikine, would be a good fit for the Central Coast, maybe even as the fabled Northern Discovery? see site: www.interislandferry.com/information.htmlBoth of those vessels are a bit larger than Nimpkish, but they have a totally enclosed car deck, making them more suitable for rougher weather conditions. Alaska's design has side doors to accommodate their docking setup. A version for BC Ferries would either have to be stern load only, or have a bow visor. Here are the specs from IFA's website: MV Prince of Wales & MV Stikinelength: 198' (60m) beam: 51' (15.5m) weight: 95 gross tons speed: 15 kts auto capacity: 30 auto deck clearance: 14'-6" (4.4m) pass. capacitiesPrince of Wales: 160 Stikine: 190 A vessel such as this would give passengers a bonified passenger deck, and if the template was modified to make an even larger version of the IFA vessels, you very well could have the perfect Route 40 ferry, aka Northern Discovery.
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Post by WettCoast on Jan 14, 2011 20:05:25 GMT -8
I believe that you are right. The IFA design would fit well on the BC Central Coast. The 30-car size is perhaps a bit big for the demand that exists on this route during the off season.
Such a vessel could also serve Klemtu which the Nimpkish can't do.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jan 14, 2011 20:35:03 GMT -8
A recent BC Ferries document on central coast traffic showed that Ocean Falls and Shearwater average, year round, about one car per visit. Clearly the Nimpkish isn't overtaxed serving those communities in winter; I think it would be hard to justify the cost of a much larger vessel like the spare IFA one.
Why Ocean Falls and Shearwater even have car ferry service is hard to figure. The winter population of Ocean Falls is about fifty, and I don't think Shearwater has much more. Hartley Bay has three times that, but no BC Ferries service.
Once the new terminal at Klemtu gets built, perhaps a smaller vessel like the IFA one would be able to use it. Then a winter service connecting all the central coast communities with a larger boat might make sense.
I know I wouldn't want to spend nine hours on the Nimpkish, going from Bella Bella to Bella Coola, with no food service and only that teeny little lounge with hard plastic seats. The vehicle capacity may be more than adequate, but the creature comforts are unacceptable for such a long trip, no matter how few passengers are being carried.
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Feb 11, 2011 10:12:03 GMT -8
Dry docking at DPM? Sure... FYI, but likely unrelated, the Kuper just completed her refit under four months ago here at Nanaimo Shipyards...
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