Kam
Voyager
Posts: 926
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Post by Kam on May 3, 2011 15:04:25 GMT -8
Just because it has such an embarrassing name (Unless you pronounce it with an Afrikaans accent ). To think that the name of this ship is embarrassing because its name resembles a piece of human anatomy in the English language is just childish. If proper anatomical names like clitoris make you all giggly and uncomfortable it may be time for a trip back to 6'th grade biology class. ;-) Kleet-sah is a native name for a mountain that means means "snow covered, or "always white". Now, can we grow up and move along please?
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Post by Low Light Mike on May 3, 2011 15:20:28 GMT -8
My response to that is to bribe one of the mods to change your name. As part of our April Fool's Day pranks this spring, we did change Neil's username for the morning of April 1st 2011. Using the "censored words" function, we censored the word "Neil" and replaced it with "Cascade". - no reaction from Neil at the time, but I feel the need to confess this transgression. ;D
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Post by Mike C on May 3, 2011 15:50:10 GMT -8
Debating the appropriateness of the name Klitsa based on female anatomy is no more mature than Donald Trump's crusade to oust Barack Obama on lack of legitimacy. Just sayin'. Anyways... My response to that is to bribe one of the mods to change your name. As part of our April Fool's Day pranks this spring, we did change Neil's username for the morning of April 1st 2011. Using the "censored words" function, we censored the word "Neil" and replaced it with "Cascade". - no reaction from Neil at the time, but I feel the need to confess this transgression. ;D Speaking of Cascade, it was a real shame that the real Cascade could not come out for the final voyage. After all, his father's sister's daughter's cousin twice-removed worked for Coast Ferries (or something) - close ties to the route. I - would like to - personally - invite him - to - contribute.
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Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,886
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Post by Mill Bay on May 3, 2011 16:28:14 GMT -8
Allow me to make one final thing clear about the nick-name business... Did I ever state openly that I feel the name Klitsa is discomfiting for anatomical reasons? On top of that... who are the people who reacted to it so hotly?
Whatever others think the name of the ship resembles, my reasons for not particularly appreciating it are strictly based on phonetics. I've studied linguistics, and I know how sounds go together. Perhaps I just have a rather anglicized sense of sound, although that could be a bit to partisan, as I enjoy listening to the simple flow of sound of other languages sometimes far more than English.
The problem is that, the local aboriginal language groups of the west coast seem to defy convention when it comes to an understanding of form and sound based on our affinity for Latin based European language systems. Words that are simply transliterated out of any one of the local native dialects without proper thought for the flow of sound actually being represented by the letters used to write the word in English can lead to difficult to groupings of letters that are difficult to recognize and identify the sounds for. It is no different than someone who has perfect pitch finding some notes awkward to hear, and even imagining that they cause sensations of pain to their ears.
Maybe embarrassing is an improper descriptor for a word or a name, but the simple fact is that, once you gain an understanding for language, and how it functions, certain things may sometime leap out as appearing out of place, or mislabeled on a page. It is not the resemblance to a different word that makes it seem too light, or heavy, or unattractive for a ship`s name, it is simply the unusual order of letters and the unfamiliar flow of sound they force you to try and produce to when you pronounce the word. I guess the simplest explanation is the word sounds funny when you hear it, because it is difficult to pronounce in the first place.
I hope that explanation is grown up enough for you, because for me, anatomical alliterations for this word never crossed my mind until I found the reference given by someone else. I just found the very word itself mislead the eyes, tricked the mind and confused the ears.
I hope that`s good: Now give me my Ph. D.
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
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Post by FNS on May 3, 2011 17:32:17 GMT -8
I have an idea. Should the MV KLITSA be renamed MV MALAHAT?
"Malahat" has more meaning for the area this ferry will be serving. There are some geographical names of "Malahat" in this area.
The MV MILL BAY was named after the city she served. I think the name MV MALAHAT would be better for a ferry that will be serving the geographical areas of the same name.
Think of this: Let's take the "Malahat Shortcut" aboard the MV MALAHAT from Bretwood Bay.
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Post by lmtengs on May 3, 2011 19:08:07 GMT -8
I have an idea. Should the MV KLITSA be renamed MV MALAHAT? "Malahat" has more meaning for the area this ferry will be serving. There are some geographical names of "Malahat" in this area. The MV MILL BAY was named after the city she served. I think the name MV MALAHAT would be better for a ferry that will be serving the geographical areas of the same name. Think of this: Let's take the "Malahat Shortcut" aboard the MV MALAHAT from Bretwood Bay.Okay, then I guess it's time to rename the Howe Sound Queen as Crofton Queen, and Queen of Nanaimo should be Queen of the Gulf Islands?The Northern Adventure should be renamed MV Hecate and the Northern Expedition the MV Inside Passage? The Island Sky should then be the Jervis, and the Quadra Queen II the MV Johnstone.You see, it's just not logical to rename a ship whenever it's route changes. Otherwise we'd be going to re-christening ceremonies annually. Just stick with the names we've already got. The Klitsa is aging, so we only need to live with her name for nary 20 more years. Gitcher minds outta the gutter. As a footnote, the only ferry that I'm stuck with about name change is the Kuper. The island she was named after doesn't even exist under that handle anymore. Should she be renamed the Penelakut, or stay as Kuper? Now enough about the anatomy of a name, let's get back to the topic at hand, as was already suggested earlier.
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Post by Mike C on May 4, 2011 1:37:44 GMT -8
I have an idea. Should the MV KLITSA be renamed MV MALAHAT? "Malahat" has more meaning for the area this ferry will be serving. There are some geographical names of "Malahat" in this area. The MV MILL BAY was named after the city she served. I think the name MV MALAHAT would be better for a ferry that will be serving the geographical areas of the same name. Think of this: Let's take the "Malahat Shortcut" aboard the MV MALAHAT from Bretwood Bay.Okay, then I guess it's time to rename the Howe Sound Queen as Crofton Queen, and Queen of Nanaimo should be Queen of the Gulf Islands?The Northern Adventure should be renamed MV Hecate and the Northern Expedition the MV Inside Passage? The Island Sky should then be the Jervis, and the Quadra Queen II the MV Johnstone.You see, it's just not logical to rename a ship whenever it's route changes. Otherwise we'd be going to re-christening ceremonies annually. Just stick with the names we've already got. The Klitsa is aging, so we only need to live with her name for nary 20 more years. Gitcher minds outta the gutter. Correct, this was something we had discussed on the trip. BC Ferries is making a real effort (or so it seems) to be devoid of any names referring to a specific place, to create a more standardized fleet and boats interchangeable. Although this is a sad reality for most ferry fans who would send in cheques to see the "Queen of" names appear again, it certainly does make the standardization process, and even the vessel classification system, easier. The Kuper was a very unlikely circumstance. BC Ferries had predicted that the name of the island would not change, which is reasonable, and that the vessel would remain on the route for which it was intended, likely for the majority of it's working life for BC Ferries. They had also intended for it to be apart of the existing 'K' class of vessels, and so that name ensued.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
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Post by Neil on May 5, 2011 10:47:39 GMT -8
My response to that is to bribe one of the mods to change your name. As part of our April Fool's Day pranks this spring, we did change Neil's username for the morning of April 1st 2011. Using the "censored words" function, we censored the word "Neil" and replaced it with "Cascade". - no reaction from Neil at the time, but I feel the need to confess this transgression. ;D You sly dog. I missed that, although I think I looked in briefly that morning. Funny thing about Cascade; I kinda miss him more the longer he's been gone. Mileage Photo's remark about the ' real Cascade' made me chuckle, because that was always the issue, from my point of view... Legendary Mill Bay: I guess my lack of formal training in linguistics, and accompanying lack of appreciation for 'perfect pitch' in language leaves me uninformed as to why Klitsa is such a discordant name for a ferry. Klitsa. Six letters. Two syllables. Named for a mountain. Sounds fine to me. It's curious that the one ferry name that might call up an association with a piece of anatomy is the only name you object to, when there are so many other first nations terms, perhaps poorly translated, in BC and Washington ferries. For some reason, the saying "He who excuses himself accuses himself" comes to mind, but I'm just being cheeky, so pay no heed.
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Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,886
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Post by Mill Bay on May 5, 2011 14:42:45 GMT -8
As part of our April Fool's Day pranks this spring, we did change Neil's username for the morning of April 1st 2011. Using the "censored words" function, we censored the word "Neil" and replaced it with "Cascade". - no reaction from Neil at the time, but I feel the need to confess this transgression. ;D You sly dog. I missed that, although I think I looked in briefly that morning. Funny thing about Cascade; I kinda miss him more the longer he's been gone. Mileage Photo's remark about the ' real Cascade' made me chuckle, because that was always the issue, from my point of view... Legendary Mill Bay: I guess my lack of formal training in linguistics, and accompanying lack of appreciation for 'perfect pitch' in language leaves me uninformed as to why Klitsa is such a discordant name for a ferry. Klitsa. Six letters. Two syllables. Named for a mountain. Sounds fine to me. It's curious that the one ferry name that might call up an association with a piece of anatomy is the only name you object to, when there are so many other first nations terms, perhaps poorly translated, in BC and Washington ferries. For some reason, the saying "He who excuses himself accuses himself" comes to mind, but I'm just being cheeky, so pay no heed. I was going to get to that, but I guess I left myself to open to getting jumped on by you guys. I suppose it may seem like a case of "Me thinks the man doth protest too much", but I honestly never made any connection to the similar sound of the ferry name Klitsa until I had been a member of this forum for a long time and heard the thought mentioned in some offhand remark somewhere. As long as I have both feet in my mouth, and my head in the sand, and I'm down at the bottom of this hole with you being kind enough to through me a shovel, I was going to elaborate on this notion with the name Kuper. Or, rather, the Kuper's alternate name. We all know that the Kuper is not a first nations name, despite being one of the infamous K-barges. It's actually the new, or old, name of the island that now strikes my senses as being somewhat off key. For the life of me, I find the name Penelakut also does appear very odd to my eyes, and I know I would embarrass myself trying to pronounce it properly due to the odd grouping of sounds. As you can see, there could be no correlation between this name and any form of the human makeup, so you can't claim my mind is sinking to new lows when I simply find this word hard to recognize and rather awkward to process in the sound making portion of my brain. Feel free to give me a lesson on how it is pronounced, but I'm sure if I was taught by someone who actually knows the dialect the Penelakut band speaks, it would sound very natural, hearing a natural speaker of the language speak the word. So, for whatever reason, just due to that awkward combination of sounds, Klitsa will never sound very attractive in my books but, if you want some comparison with names of her other family members, of the two Albion ferries, Kulleet always sounded like a rather poorly formed compilation of sounds, while I always Klatawa very easy and appealing to hear, as long as you were pronouncing entirely with long vowels. By contrast, it is the short vowel in the name Klitsa that sounds so harsh to the ear.
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Kam
Voyager
Posts: 926
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Post by Kam on Jul 14, 2011 23:16:37 GMT -8
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Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,886
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Post by Mill Bay on Aug 10, 2011 8:14:13 GMT -8
Darn! And I never joined the Save the Mill Bay Ferry group on Facebook.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 10, 2011 8:30:20 GMT -8
The puzzling thing is that the above-mentioned, recently released BC Ferry's Commission annual report has absolutely no mention of the Mill Bay route, or of any decisions made on it. Zero, nada, none. That's some pretty poor reporting. The truth is that any decision about the route will be made when the Ferry Commissioner eventually approves the Performance-Term #3 plan, and that either happens this Autumn, or gets delayed another year. I was puzzled at this story when Save-our-ferries linked to it, and I'm still puzzled by it. - nothing has been saved yet. That fact that the route is still running and hasn't be eliminated is just because the Term-3 contract has not yet been done.
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Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,886
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Post by Mill Bay on Aug 10, 2011 11:09:35 GMT -8
The puzzling thing is that the above-mentioned, recently released BC Ferry's Commission annual report has absolutely no mention of the Mill Bay route, or of any decisions made on it. Zero, nada, none. That's some pretty poor reporting. The truth is that any decision about the route will be made when the Ferry Commissioner eventually approves the Performance-Term #3 plan, and that either happens this Autumn, or gets delayed another year. I was puzzled at this story when Save-our-ferries linked to it, and I'm still puzzled by it. - nothing has been saved yet. That fact that the route is still running and hasn't be eliminated is just because the Term-3 contract has not yet been done. That makes sense. Even The Tyee wouldn't scoop a story like that. But, hey, if it's on the internet, it must be true, and it came up in Google search, so that's additional verification.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
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Post by Neil on Aug 10, 2011 16:04:11 GMT -8
I think this was pretty much a foregone conclusion when BC Ferries announced the rebuilding of the terminals, and the upgrades to the Klitsa. There might not have been any announcement, but it's hard to believe there wasn't some communication between the province and BC Ferries to firm up the future of the route, given the amount of money that was being spent.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 10, 2011 16:12:33 GMT -8
I think this was pretty much a foregone conclusion when BC Ferries announced the rebuilding of the terminals, and the upgrades to the Klitsa. There might not have been any announcement, but it's hard to believe there wasn't some communication between the province and BC Ferries to firm up the future of the route, given the amount of money that was being spent. I agree that all appears well for the route's future. What got my attention and prompted my comment was the item in the news story that referred to a decision announced in a specific report; and yet there was no decision in that report. But all the clues of the upgrades point to a continued future for that route.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 28, 2011 16:28:35 GMT -8
Some observations from my trip on the Klitsa today on the Saanich Inlet route:
The vessel has a crew of 4. The deckhand does the fare-collection, and she does that on-board as the ship is underway. When boarding, the friendly deckhand asks if you have a prepaid-ticket or not, and if not, she puts a sign on your windshield. She then comes around to collect at each signed-car on the car deck, as the voyage starts. - I suppose that there's a small risk of fraud (hide your sign), but this process really speeds up the loading.
There are 2 ways for the master/mate to get to the bridge: - up the stairs and through the passenger sundeck. - or climb a ladder from the car-deck, and then take a crew-stairs. They do this when the sundeck is full of passengers.
There are 2 sundecks, and 2 nice sheltered areas at the DBC chutes. - these are on opposite corners of the ship.
The historical photo / ephemera collage is displayed in the passenger side-lounge.
Photos to come, eventually.
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Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,078
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Post by Nick on Aug 28, 2011 17:07:47 GMT -8
The method of collecting fares while on board is not new. They have been doing that for years on the MV Mill Bay, depending on whether the ship is running on time and how long it takes to load.
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Post by lmtengs on Aug 28, 2011 18:49:21 GMT -8
The method of collecting fares while on board is not new. They have been doing that for years on the MV Mill Bay, depending on whether the ship is running on time and how long it takes to load. They collected them at the Mill Bay terminal at the little toll booth on the trestle when I sailed last...
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 28, 2011 19:30:58 GMT -8
The method of collecting fares while on board is not new. They have been doing that for years on the MV Mill Bay, depending on whether the ship is running on time and how long it takes to load. They collected them at the Mill Bay terminal at the little toll booth on the trestle when I sailed last... - the trestle toll-booth is the way that I've always seen it, in my 5 or 6 times on the route. But I've never done the route on a summer weekend before, so maybe that's the difference.
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Post by WettCoast on Aug 28, 2011 20:27:02 GMT -8
When I was aboard Klitsa on this route on June 8th of this year, they collected my money once the vessel was underway. I was one of the last vehicles to show up at the terminal and one of the last to board. I suspect they collect the fare when it is convenient and endeavour not to put the schedule 'out of wack' so collect on board as needed. Are the paper tickets issued on this route unique within BCF's system?
That was my first and only trip (so far) on the Klitsa, and my second trip on this route, the first having been on the Mill Bay 35+ years ago.
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Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,078
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Post by Nick on Aug 29, 2011 7:22:06 GMT -8
When I was aboard Klitsa on this route on June 8th of this year, they collected my money once the vessel was underway. I was one of the last vehicles to show up at the terminal and one of the last to board. I suspect they collect the fare when it is convenient and endeavour not to put the schedule 'out of wack' so collect on board as needed. Are the paper tickets issued on this route unique within BCF's system? That was my first and only trip (so far) on the Klitsa, and my second trip on this route, the first having been on the Mill Bay 35+ years ago. To my knowledge the tickets are unique to route 12. The trestle toll booth is used when the ship has plenty of time to do the turn around... IE light traffic, ship on time etc. When the schedule gets out of whack, they collect on board. In my experience both with the Klitsa and Mill Bay (and I used to take the route at least 7 or 8 times a year), it's been about 50/50.
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