Neil
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Post by Neil on Jan 18, 2010 22:35:19 GMT -8
I am not a ferry fan just a person who, like so many, grew up with the B.C ferries. I speak for ALOT of people both old and mid life like myself, who I have talked to while working in a grocery store for 23 years. Those who traveled the Ferries loved the baby blue and the dogwood, they want it back along with the service and safty it represented. A great connection with our amazing province history can be passed onto the next generation. I thought the new corporate logo looked like the love boat from way back and very American. It also did not compare at all to the baby blue and dogwood. I'm not sure how the methodology of grocery store polling compares to that done by BC Ferries, but, for what it's worth, theirs shows a fairly high level of satisfaction with safety factors- about 86%. It's hard to say how that compares with the prevailing view back in the dogwood days, as I don't know if BC Ferries did polling then. Chances are it's a bit lower since the ' North tragedy, although with what we know of that incident, it could have just as easily occured thirty years ago as now, although perhaps for different specific reasons. Linda, I agree with you that the dogwood/pastel scheme was the best, partly because it's what I grew up with, and it's identified with the publicly owned and run BC Ferries. Most people probably agree, but I doubt that feelings are really very strong. At every BC Ferries AGM, at FAC meetings, and wherever else stakeholders voice their ferry concerns, the priorities are on fares, schedules, financial issues and the relationship between BC Ferries and local communities. Even where people are discussing the public/private aspect, the question of whether funnels are adorned with flowering shrubs is pretty peripheral. I think this is an issue that separates the fans from the general public, although I realize most people on this forum would disagree with me. To those who look to a possible Carole James government for a switch back to public governance for BC Ferries, and the resurrection of the dogwood, I'm dubious. Her style suggests more of a similarity to Gary Doer than Dave Barrett, and a major 're-nationalization' of BC Ferries might be rather low on her priority list, well down from health care and education.
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Mill Bay
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Long Suffering Bosun
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Post by Mill Bay on Jan 19, 2010 17:33:24 GMT -8
I guess I'll lapse into being Neil for this one, since I definitely wouldn't want it to seem like I represent myself. It's most likely true that, despite the sentimentality and over-emotional significance ferry fanatics attach to the old pastel blue colors, I'm sure the vast majority of the travelling masses does not even notice the color on the ferry they are travelling on, let alone allow much concern, or care, for it.
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Post by lmtengs on Jan 19, 2010 18:01:22 GMT -8
Most Rupertites that I know do like pastel more too. My Great Aunt, Great Uncle, some friends of the family, and my mother's cousin, and Don Scott, P.R's ex-mayor all liked the pastel more. That about 70% of the people in Rupert I know. The conversation was brought up last summer when I was up north.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Oct 3, 2011 21:32:07 GMT -8
:)continuing this thread a little bit further, the Queen of the Islands was the only vessel we went to the Montreal design firm of German and Milne and did not go to our established design source and it was a missfit in many ways, but overall the ferry policy of his day was sound, and route changes were fast in those days, do you know I worked a brand new QPR, and a nearly new Mayne Queen, Saanich, and slightly older Sidney, all VMD built by a very satisfied British Columbian, and will Cristy bring back the dogwood? :)mrdot. You know, I wouldn't bet against it. My sense is that Christy has a very keen sense of cheap political optics, and if she thought it might buy her a bit of goodwill and eliminate the tarnish of Hahnian privatism, I wouldn't be surprised to see the return of the dogwood to ferry funnels someday soon. She's more popular than her party is, and she knows that there's votes in nostalgia. Looking at the Bowen Queen today, and how commercial vehicles have to thread their way through that one lane in the centre, it seems to point again to how little foresight there was in design. The lane is very narrow, and one has to wonder how much thought WAC's ship designers gave to the needs of the coming century. Seems to me they gave shipyards specs that fit the needs of the mid '60s, and not beyond. Criticize the current regime if you wish, but deck five on those Coastals will eventually be utilized as we become less car-centric. Not to sound too Yogi Berra-ish, but foresight takes some skill to forecast.
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mrdot
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Mr. DOT
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Post by mrdot on Oct 4, 2011 7:26:31 GMT -8
:)one more crack at this issue, I don't see the dogwood as nostalga, it was the heritage I grew up with, and became a political football, only after gordo and hahn took the helm! Why haven't Alaska and Washington, with their many political changes, seen fit to rebrand with every corse change? as for crusty, I don't envy the teachers having to do battle with her! :)mrdot.
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Post by Retrovision on Oct 4, 2011 8:11:21 GMT -8
:)one more crack at this issue, I don't see the dogwood as nostalga, it was the heritage I grew up with, and became a political football, only after gordo and hahn took the helm! Why haven't Alaska and Washington, with their many political changes, seen fit to rebrand with every corse change? Political football only after the SoCreds took back power through Gordo, granted, but what we call "dogwood blue" many others consider "Bennett blue" and associate it strongly with W. Andrew. C. Bennett's reign. Even mention of the colour that was branded on every kind of BC transportation infrastructure (and still survives on a number of older pedestrian overpasses, etc.) of the time triggers a cringe from my folks to this day. Seeing as the BC "Liberal" party has had a caucus comprised of a majority of ex-SoCreds - at least until recently - I can't see that colour, if not the dogwood completely, ever returning while they're in power as they wouldn't want to acknowledge this heritage of theirs, especially considering the SoCreds were a right-wing party ("right of Atilla the Hun" as my dad jokes) and Christy Crunch's party has "Liberal" right in the title. I'm sure that in 5 minutes I'll be shot down yet again for making such a vague assessment, but I'm confident in this truth mainly based on the number of reputable people who would back me up.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 4, 2011 9:15:34 GMT -8
A new thread for our ongoing discussion about BC Ferries heritage and political and other reasonings for abandoning or returning to the original ferry-system roots.
ie. the livery, the logo etc, and other discussions relating to "I like the old stuff better....".
I'll move some existing discussion into this new thread.
ps: this type of discussion pops up from time to time in various threads, and I'll move it here when it happens so that we can see our history on these issues (many discussed over and over again).
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mrdot
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Mr. DOT
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Post by mrdot on Oct 4, 2011 10:47:24 GMT -8
:)time to put a lid on this item, long live the original pastel blue and the dogwood! and put to bed this rite and left stuff! :)mrdot.
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Post by Retrovision on Oct 4, 2011 11:12:04 GMT -8
:)time to put a lid on this item, long live the original pastel blue and the dogwood! and put to bed this rite and left stuff! :)mrdot. Agreed. And fortunately my generation (and those younger) as well as most ferry fans seem to see the pastel blue as more of a nostalgic colour rather than a politically contentious one.
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FNS
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The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
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Post by FNS on Oct 4, 2011 12:38:38 GMT -8
:)time to put a lid on this item, long live the original pastel blue and the dogwood! and put to bed this rite and left stuff! :)mrdot. Agree. Time to tie this one up to the dock and secure it. Been discussed many times over and over again, to the point "why"? Long live the pastel blue and Dogwood. Time to float further along these waters to see what else is here. I agree! From the US side, let's see the original colors (or "colours" to our friends in Canada) restored to BCF's fleet. We have the "Evergreen Fleet" here in Washington's side of the Salish Sea. Our ferries have been green and white since the repainting of the Black Ball fleet after June 1, 1951. Yes, we had a couple of colors added in the 1980s, but were covered over with green again. It's time to return to calling BC Ferries the "Dogwood Fleet". Out with the slugs! ;D
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Post by Queen of Nanaimo Teen on Oct 4, 2011 14:53:28 GMT -8
Even if the ferries do go back to the Government, let's be honest, the dogwood isn't coming back. The "best place on earth" saying would find its way on the ships, and I imagine the sun in the mountains logo would end up on the funnels.
In my honest opinion, the only way we would have a slight chance of getting the dogwood back would be if the NDP were to regain power.
I contemplate this all the time, and it makes me very sad. We sure had a great thing going for the first 40+ years.
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 4, 2011 18:04:54 GMT -8
Even if the ferries do go back to the Government, let's be honest, the dogwood isn't coming back. The "best place on earth" saying would find its way on the ships, and I imagine the sun in the mountains logo would end up on the funnels. You've tempted me to 'draw' out my creative side... Here's a five-minute photoshopping attempt at our beloved Queen of Oak Bay: a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/313486_2380318434701_1452881547_2546727_1312963016_n.jpg[/img] (The photo would be of a higher quality, but Facebook's resizing technology has a lower quality than what it used to, so it comes out kinda pixelly and gross.) Edit: What about on the Super Cs and the NorEx though? The slugs are pretty much permanently embossed upon their funnels. A pretty big refit would be needed to change the logo on them. With the older ferries, you could pretty much just take them out of service for a couple days and they're ready, but with the German four, a total funnel dissection would be at call.
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mrdot
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Mr. DOT
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Post by mrdot on Oct 4, 2011 18:48:42 GMT -8
:)please don't get me on this non-nautical venue again, but there is nothing more dissengenuous than this "greatest place on earth" almost krass sounding political jingle, you know someone living on a god- forsaken araid sahara sand dune, can think that's the best place on earth, it's not just a little subjective, some people might even think it's mean spirited, our friends down Washington State way probably think they are in the best place on earth, and perhaps up Alaska way as well! Let's just stay with our historical dogwood, and perhaps even Dave Barrett and WAC Bennett might have agreed. Then maybe we could get rid of rediculous travel industry nomenclature, and revert to geographical queens once again! long live the dogwood! :)mrdot.
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Post by Queen of Nanaimo Teen on Oct 4, 2011 20:11:55 GMT -8
Amen to that brother! We (well not me anymore) live in Beautiful British Columbia, and that's all it'll ever be to me. Funnel looks just about right. Well done
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Post by Dane on Oct 4, 2011 20:19:59 GMT -8
That photoshop job on the Oak Bay is very impressive - well done. And potentially realistic!
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Oct 4, 2011 20:27:24 GMT -8
Recently, the provincial Liberals unveiled their new logo, which highlights Christie as much as the party's name. Today Clark revealed that the government aims to overrule the judiciary's opposition to televising the Canuck riot court prosecutions. We've seen Clark's frequent trotting out of the 'families first' platitudes, whether or not they're supported by any actual policy. There has been a conscious and persistent effort on the part of the premier to dissociate her government from Gordon Campbell's, at least in tone if not substance. The point here is that Christie Clark is big on optics. And there's no denying that BC Ferries' image is terrible, so much so that their bottom line is being hurt by a self perpetuating focus on the management construct that was set up by Gordon Campbell, who's name is now anathema to Clark and her circle. People associate BC Ferries with extravagant management remuneration, increasing fares, and a general disconnect with the needs of coastal communities. That's not entirely accurate, but again, optics are what Christie is all about. The ferries commissioner is in the midst of reporting to government about the functioning of the current set up. Clark no doubt is aware of the public's animosity toward BC Ferries, and no doubt sees the value of responding to make the company more in tune with public aspirations. Whether that means something as superficial as returning to pastel blue, 're-nationalizing' operations, or just increasing the subsidy to keep fares down... who knows. But I think something is going to change. We'll have to stay tuned. mrdot: I enjoy your mix of political comment and nautical observations. You may as well give up your aspirations of keeping clear of current and past political issues; you know you can't resist.
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Post by Curtis on Oct 4, 2011 20:51:58 GMT -8
What about on the Super Cs and the NorEx though? The slugs are pretty much permanently embossed upon their funnels. A pretty big refit would be needed to change the logo on them. With the older ferries, you could pretty much just take them out of service for a couple days and they're ready, but with the German four, a total funnel dissection would be at call. Personally, I don't think this would be too much of a problem. All it would take is probably one or two people in a scissor lift with an angle grinder for a few hours to get both sides off. I would love to see the day that they weld a gigantic steel dogwood flag on one of those funnels though it is hard to say what the 4th colour scheme would be should it happen. I have an odd suspicion it would match something similar to the blue and green colours that BC Transit is using right now, however, my other suspicion is that "The Best Place on Earth" branding would be (dare I say it) 'billboarded' on our fleet. I'd be more content if they put it on the side of our vessels like the BC Spirit Flag before it. Really though, I dare to dream. Return me to the Expo scheme any day.
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 4, 2011 21:17:34 GMT -8
I wouldn't be at all surprised if the next government ditches the Best Place on Earth motto. It references the Campbell era in people's minds, and to remind everyone of him come election day wouldn't be the best strategy to win. To return to Beautiful British Columbia would be fantastic.
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Kam
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Post by Kam on Oct 4, 2011 21:19:06 GMT -8
To be honest, who (besides a bunch of ferry geeks) cares about the BCF logo...
Lets all take a minute to remember how dumb a move it was and how many millions it cost to change the logo last time.
What would be dumber is to spend millions to do the same thing all over again.
We are not just talking about painting over a few ships here.. That logo is on thousands of signs, buildings, vehicles, ships, letterhead, documents of all sorts, websites, videos, you name it. Just stop to think about every place you have ever seen the BCF logo and now think about the manpower it would take to update it all over again.
At the end of the day, its just a logo.
IMHO, lets spend the money on more important things, its time to move on.
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Post by WettCoast on Oct 4, 2011 21:55:25 GMT -8
I say ditch the slugs as vessels come up for repainting. Return to BC ferries heritage by restoring the Dogwood. It would be sort of like bringing back 'Classic Coke'. It need not cost the moon and the stars!
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Post by Retrovision on Oct 4, 2011 22:06:15 GMT -8
I say ditch the slugs as vessels come up for repainting. Return to BC ferries heritage by restoring the Dogwood. It would be sort of like bringing back 'Classic Coke'. It need not cost the moon and the stars! When it comes to painting of crown assets such as ships, minus all the signage and letterhead, etc., Wett Coast makes a good point. I'm thinking, as example, of the repainting of TransLink buses when they took over from BC Transit in Metro Vancouver. In that case, the extra cost was swallowed by only repainting with the new branding when a bus would normally be scheduled for a fresh coat of paint anyways. Sure, it took some time and for years there we had dueling liveries on the same company's buses but, especially in this financial climate, I can't see many complaints coming from such a long process and would expect a lot of understanding from travelers (except for maybe the question of why re-brand at all from those who don't harbour the same nostalgia for the old dogwood, which I guess would be the vast majority).
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 25, 2011 15:39:05 GMT -8
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Post by Dane on Oct 25, 2011 17:28:48 GMT -8
Ahhh excellent. The fleet is more or less standardized for the first time in a long time (or ever?) so let's start switching it up again. Good times.
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 25, 2011 18:02:31 GMT -8
Ooh, I hope it involves stepping on slugs...
PS: Do we want to amalgamate this with the other BCF branding thread?
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Post by Dane on Oct 25, 2011 18:13:59 GMT -8
Ooh, I hope it involves stepping on slugs... PS: Do we want to amalgamate this with the other BCF branding thread? Gahhh the thread merging is the destruction of natural conversation which is behind a lot of what makes discussion forums so great. But alas, neither here nor there. But seriously if things continue to be so heavily moved this should just become a standardized board with locked discussion areas with specified discussions. Back to the topic at hand, I really would be curious why BC Ferries is again renewing the brands they are using. While the current image will be ten years old come the SoBC's mid-life, it doesn't seem like time has caught up with what they've done, and there has been some 'refreshing' of the brand as the MLU's/asset betterment's and new builds came online. They've actually done really well in creating a common experience on the mainline, in my opinion. No matter what major route you are on you can expect more-or-less the exact same services. The only thing that seems to have flopped a bit is the SeaWest lounge off route 1. No idea how it is doing there since I don't ride very much anymore. If there is a serious re-designation of services this could be a costly exercise in futility, and not a very good time to be doing it.
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