Alec
Oiler (New Member)
Posts: 21
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Post by Alec on Sept 5, 2023 16:16:02 GMT -8
I asked this in another thread the other day but there seemed to be some confusion. To re-ask it here, will a Coastal class vessel be on route 2 this winter? Or for that matter, will a Coastal ever return to route 2?
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Post by The Black cat on Sept 5, 2023 17:30:34 GMT -8
Alec, as the saying goes, never say never, however it seems very unlikely a Coastal class will be on rt 2, at least in the near future based on the fact that rt 1 and 30 gets the priority. Coastal Renaissance used to operate rt 2 in the summer but due to overhight capacity needed on rt 30 it has switched with the Alberni during the summer and during the winter months it replaces other ships during refit.
Another partial reason is the Coastal class are better equipped for transit through Active pass compared with C classes such as Queen of Oak Bay. The c class are better suited for the open waters of the Salish sea. Also C class carry a few more cars than the Coastal.
When the C class ships are retired around 2029ish then I can see Coastals been assigned to rt 2 permanently or the new ships.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,187
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Post by Neil on Oct 21, 2023 19:39:08 GMT -8
Okay, so it's Saturday evening, and the Saltspring based route nine vessel, currently the Salish Eagle, is sitting at Tsawwassen for the usual four and a half hour layover, I believe to facilitate refueling. I guess my question is to our long time member, Chris, 'Ferryman', who I'm pretty sure has a fair bit of history on that route. What does the crew do for the evening? Are there regularly scheduled maintenance chores? And how does the crewing work? I know there's a morning and afternoon shift on that route when it does just two round trips out of Long Harbour. The Saturday afternoon shift would be a really long one, with the layover. Is crew change on Sunday?
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Post by Ferryman on Oct 23, 2023 10:16:33 GMT -8
Okay, so it's Saturday evening, and the Saltspring based route nine vessel, currently the Salish Eagle, is sitting at Tsawwassen for the usual four and a half hour layover, I believe to facilitate refueling. I guess my question is to our long time member, Chris, 'Ferryman', who I'm pretty sure has a fair bit of history on that route. What does the crew do for the evening? Are there regularly scheduled maintenance chores? And how does the crewing work? I know there's a morning and afternoon shift on that route when it does just two round trips out of Long Harbour. The Saturday afternoon shift would be a really long one, with the layover. Is crew change on Sunday? Hi Neil, The Route 9 saturday night fueling layover is a routine that has dated back well before the Salish Class ever came around. For the Salish Class, the Engineering crew is entirely focused on refuelling the vessel. In fact, they add a couple of extra engineering crew to help with the operation. The process of bunkering LNG is pretty intense and time consuming. Any glitch along the way, and the entire process starts from the beginning again. As for the rest of the crew, they do focus on more in depth maintenance of the vessel. The catering crew focus on doing a deep clean of interior passenger spaces, completing tasks that can't be completed while on the run or in between sailings. The Deck Department will catch up on completing safety equipment inspections and checklists, as well as wash-down of the sun deck. They also take advantage of the time to practice a variety of emergency drill scenarios. On special occasions, the crew partake in a crew potluck dinner before getting started with the maintenance routines. There's always work to be done on a ship, so there's always something to keep busy with.
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Post by Ollie on Nov 21, 2023 23:07:29 GMT -8
What is the foot passenger ticket cutoff time for route 1? I can't find it anywhere on the BC Ferries website.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,187
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Post by Neil on Nov 21, 2023 23:25:36 GMT -8
What is the foot passenger ticket cutoff time for route 1? I can't find it anywhere on the BC Ferries website. Right there in the schedule... "Check in times without a reservation"... ten minutes before sailing time. I think that's the official cutoff for all routes.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Nov 22, 2023 0:02:50 GMT -8
What is the foot passenger ticket cutoff time for route 1? I can't find it anywhere on the BC Ferries website. I believe in ten minutes before departure even if delayed due Transport Canada and ticket sales don’t start until vessel leaves berth, I believe this is for all major routes including routes. 3 (Horseshoe Bay only), 4 (Swartz Bay only), 5 (Swartz Bay only), 8 (Horseshoe Bay only), and 9 (Tsawwassen only).
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Post by articulated on Nov 23, 2023 10:54:26 GMT -8
What is the foot passenger ticket cutoff time for route 1? I can't find it anywhere on the BC Ferries website. I believe in ten minutes before departure even if delayed due Transport Canada and ticket sales don’t start until vessel leaves berth, I believe this is for all major routes including routes. 3 (Horseshoe Bay only), 4 (Swartz Bay only), 5 (Swartz Bay only), 8 (Horseshoe Bay only), and 9 (Tsawwassen only). Based on my experience, that is correct that ticket sales are suspended 10 minutes before the vessel departs the berth, regardless of schedule. For example, earlier this summer I arrived at Swartz Bay around 7:35-7:40, and had to wait in a line outside the terminal because Spirit of Vancouver Island was still loading for her 7:00 departure. Once SoVI left (around 7:47), the ticket machines unlocked for the 8:00 sailing by Queen of New Westminster (which ended up departing around 8:35).
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john689
Oiler (New Member)
Posts: 7
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Post by john689 on Dec 2, 2023 16:48:14 GMT -8
Pardon me if this topic has been discussed before, but I’m beginning to see why BC Ferries has been plagued by so many issues: New hires cannot realistically be expected to survive indefinitely in their meagre work conditions.
They begin their employment on a casual basis, and a condition of employment is that they must always be available to work at short notice (several hours in most cases). Additionally, being incapable of meeting that condition of employment on three subsequent occasions leads to a termination. They’re also working in the absence of benefits, and the only way to secure a permanent position is if someone ahead of them with more seniority decides to leave. In many instances, you could be waiting many years, and a four year wait isn’t uncommon.
The condition of employment precludes working elsewhere, and BC Ferries cannot guarantee any shifts.
So, given the fact that the living wage on most of the southern coast is approximately $25-$27/hr, and new hires would be expected to work with 100% uncertainty with no benefits for upwards of four years or more, making the equivalent of minimum wage with their reduced schedule, what’s their incentive to stay?
You could just as easily get full time job elsewhere that pays as much, with benefits and job security.
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Post by Kahloke on Dec 2, 2023 17:46:23 GMT -8
Moved the post above into this thread
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Dec 2, 2023 17:59:54 GMT -8
Pardon me if this topic has been discussed before, but I’m beginning to see why BC Ferries has been plagued by so many issues: New hires cannot realistically be expected to survive indefinitely in their meagre work conditions. They begin their employment on a casual basis, and a condition of employment is that they must always be available to work at short notice (several hours in most cases). Additionally, being incapable of meeting that condition of employment on three subsequent occasions leads to a termination. They’re also working in the absence of benefits, and the only way to secure a permanent position is if someone ahead of them with more seniority decides to leave. In many instances, you could be waiting many years, and a four year wait isn’t uncommon. The condition of employment precludes working elsewhere, and BC Ferries cannot guarantee any shifts. So, given the fact that the living wage on most of the southern coast is approximately $25-$27/hr, and new hires would be expected to work with 100% uncertainty with no benefits for upwards of four years or more, making the equivalent of minimum wage with their reduced schedule, what’s their incentive to stay? You could just as easily get full time job elsewhere that pays as much, with benefits and job security. Very controversial opinion is going to be said by me. I think Provincial Government and BC Ferries should work at eliminating duplicate routes. I think Horseshoe Bay to Departure Bay route should be combined and increase service on Tsawwassen to Duke Point with Coastal Class getting all decks open. The Tsawwassen to Southern Gulf Island should be combine and increase service on Swartz Bay to Southern Gulf Island and Fulford Harbour routes. The Tsawwassen to Swartz Bay along with Duke Point route could get five boat year round. I think this might help the BC Ferries keep crew happy because the routes would be busier enough to justify increase service while maintaining crew morale. The Mill Bay to Brentwood Bay route will be just be axed and subsidy while go BC Transit service between Victoria and Cowichan Valley.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,187
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Post by Neil on Dec 2, 2023 21:45:15 GMT -8
Pardon me if this topic has been discussed before, but I’m beginning to see why BC Ferries has been plagued by so many issues: New hires cannot realistically be expected to survive indefinitely in their meagre work conditions. They begin their employment on a casual basis, and a condition of employment is that they must always be available to work at short notice (several hours in most cases). Additionally, being incapable of meeting that condition of employment on three subsequent occasions leads to a termination. They’re also working in the absence of benefits, and the only way to secure a permanent position is if someone ahead of them with more seniority decides to leave. In many instances, you could be waiting many years, and a four year wait isn’t uncommon. The condition of employment precludes working elsewhere, and BC Ferries cannot guarantee any shifts. So, given the fact that the living wage on most of the southern coast is approximately $25-$27/hr, and new hires would be expected to work with 100% uncertainty with no benefits for upwards of four years or more, making the equivalent of minimum wage with their reduced schedule, what’s their incentive to stay? You could just as easily get full time job elsewhere that pays as much, with benefits and job security. When you consider that most maritime employers are having a hard time finding employees, it's a bit complicated applying blame to one company, but from what I understand, BC Ferries is indeed not the most inviting place for young people to begin their careers. I think they pay about 20% less to start than Seaspan Ferries, but then Seaspan also has very few jobs in comparison. I posted a while back about a survey of young people embarking on trades training, which showed that very few even had a maritime job on their radar. Somehow, a career on the water or thereabouts has to be made to look more attractive, and you point out some very tangible reasons why people wouldn't want to start off with BC Ferries. Our coastal transit system is really big these days on polling the public on all sorts of aspects of their operations, but I think the reasons for a lack of new recruits are fairly clear, and they need to work on that. Working outside in the rain... maybe not so easily solved.
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john689
Oiler (New Member)
Posts: 7
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Post by john689 on Dec 4, 2023 16:08:41 GMT -8
There’s a great clamour for marine workers, yet the government and industry have done everything in their power to disincentivize anyone from considering that avenue of employment. Ultimately, it’s the government-endorsed gatekeepers responsible for standard keeping that are to blame, as the minimum entry fee is cost prohibitive.
The prerequisites for an entry level deckhand:
-Bridge Watch Rating -STCW -Basic safety craft -TC Marine medical
= >$10K
For a job with Ledcor on the tugs:
All of the above, plus
-Radio operator certificate -Foodsafe -Passport -Previous experience
So, these are long lamentable lists, and the majority of these courses are industry buck-passing, as the courses are only familiarization.
So, along with the zero job security, zero benefits, and skating by on the equivalent of less than minimum wage for many years as a casual employee, you are also saddled with a massive debt just to get your foot in the door for the privilege of one day making less than a guy driving a dump truck full-time.
When you contrast this with the railroad, CN trains their new conductors, and will pay, feed, and accommodate them. They start as casuals too after their training, but are making significantly more than someone employed by the Ferries.
It’s not insanely difficult to find entry level jobs in the resource sector that pay $80K in the first year, and they train their employees onsite.
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Post by 1foot2ships on Dec 7, 2023 16:43:59 GMT -8
we have an employment/ career thread.
mods: can one of u move this all there? some good data and valuable insight here for somebody in the future
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Post by Olympic Ferries on Dec 11, 2023 16:27:34 GMT -8
BC Ferries currently tweeting about the intent to purchase FOUR more Island-class ships to enter service on the Nanaimo Harbour - Gabriola and Campbell River - Quadra Island routes.
They also mention that existing ships on both routes will move to the Crofton - Vesuvius and Quadra Island - Cortes Island routes. Dunno why they would move new ships around again after recently entering service, but surely there is some reason.
I don't think I know enough as to what the "system relief vessel" is, but they say that ship will redeploy to the Denman - Hornby route for double capacity. Curious if anyone can enlighten me as to what ship that would be referring to. (meant to post here, picked wrong thread)
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Post by WettCoast on Dec 11, 2023 19:57:51 GMT -8
Dunno why they would move new ships around again after recently entering service, but surely there is some reason. My understanding is that the routes to Gabriola & Quadra are to be electrified. Charging infrastructure will be put in place at the four terminals on those two routes. Rather than retrofitting the four vessels already on those routes, they will acquire four new fully electrified vessels and place them on the two routes. The four hybrid vessels currently on those routes would then be redeployed. It makes sense to me.
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Post by Curtis on Dec 11, 2023 22:45:20 GMT -8
I don't think I know enough as to what the "system relief vessel" is, but they say that ship will redeploy to the Denman - Hornby route for double capacity. Curious if anyone can enlighten me as to what ship that would be referring to. My guess based off geographical location is that one of the Campbell River-Quadra duo (Nagalis/K'ulut'a) becomes the "system relief vessel" while the other takes over Quadra-Cortes. The mention of 'double capacity' at Denman-Hornby feels a bit misleading as the Quinitsa accomplishes this already... I suppose they don't consider that permanent since the Quinitsa's capacity is needed elsewhere during refit season. At least with an Island Class that capacity drop will be almost nonexistent... assuming the Quinitsa is the vessel swapped in.
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Post by Dane on Dec 22, 2023 15:17:50 GMT -8
Interesting day on Route 1.
Both the #2 vessels started about an hour late due to crewing issues. The CCel is doing it's modified South of Saturna route which is, in real terms, adding about 10-15 minutes per sailing.
The QoNW did a 65 minute crossing, and is almost back on time.
Conversely the CCel, in my uneducated ferry nerd opinion, is running too aggressive a schedule with mostly two hour turn around times. It's been losing time all day.
This will likely lead to the New West passing the CCel if the day says the same (posting at 3pm) for what should be the CCels 730pm departure, and the New West's 8pm.
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Post by Dane on Dec 22, 2023 19:39:43 GMT -8
And as predicted the New West is on time ish and has passed the Coastal Celebration.
Must be weird time for reservation line ups. The 8pm (QoNW) is ready to load now,740pm and the 730pm departure of the CCel is still ten minutes from landing at Tsawwassen.
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Post by 1foot2ships on Dec 22, 2023 20:07:52 GMT -8
yeah, u are right. i didnt think of it at the time but they allowed us (QNW) to cut across and dock before letting CC depart. gates were down, ramps up; they were all loaded and ready to go.
maybe b/c we were about :20 late and they didnt want both #2 boats behind? i dunno, just guessing...
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,187
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Post by Neil on Dec 22, 2023 21:26:17 GMT -8
Interesting day on Route 1. Both the #2 vessels started about an hour late due to crewing issues. The CCel is doing it's modified South of Saturna route which is, in real terms, adding about 10-15 minutes per sailing. The QoNW did a 65 minute crossing, and is almost back on time. Conversely the CCel, in my uneducated ferry nerd opinion, is running too aggressive a schedule with mostly two hour turn around times. It's been losing time all day. This will likely lead to the New West passing the CCel if the day says the same (posting at 3pm) for what should be the CCels 730pm departure, and the New West's 8pm. Dane, I didn't see a 65 minute crossing on the departures/arrivals page, but I did see 73 minutes, twice, which is pretty remarkable. The old girl is apparently the speedster of the fleet.
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Post by Ollie on Dec 22, 2023 21:45:23 GMT -8
The Celebration (and the Renaissance) seem useless right now. Why are they taking so long to repair them? They fixed the Alberni’s major mechanical issue in 2021 much quicker than this.
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Post by Dane on Dec 22, 2023 22:05:01 GMT -8
Interesting day on Route 1. Both the #2 vessels started about an hour late due to crewing issues. The CCel is doing it's modified South of Saturna route which is, in real terms, adding about 10-15 minutes per sailing. The QoNW did a 65 minute crossing, and is almost back on time. Conversely the CCel, in my uneducated ferry nerd opinion, is running too aggressive a schedule with mostly two hour turn around times. It's been losing time all day. This will likely lead to the New West passing the CCel if the day says the same (posting at 3pm) for what should be the CCels 730pm departure, and the New West's 8pm. Dane, I didn't see a 65 minute crossing on the departures/arrivals page, but I did see 73 minutes, twice, which is pretty remarkable. The old girl is apparently the speedster of the fleet. I was watching Vessel Tracker, which tends to show faster crossings (inaccurately, I think when the boats do their really really slow approaches it reads as zero knots). Conversely the Departure page seems to be conservative. The truth probably lays in the middle. Cool to see the QoNW really get well used today. Ultimately the 8pm sailing was held until the 730pm sailing cleared. Social Media suggests the QoNW loaded before the CCel, and then just held in dock.
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Post by Dane on Dec 22, 2023 22:09:20 GMT -8
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QoNW Fan
Voyager
Queen of New Westminster fan!
Posts: 263
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Post by QoNW Fan on Dec 22, 2023 23:28:55 GMT -8
Might have to boot up the ol' Queen of Burnaby to save the day! Just scrape off a little rust, throw some paint on er, and maybe some fresh chairs inside and you're good to go! Oh yeah and also replace all the parts that have been removed, so maybe the engines for example. Oh yeah and maybe rebuild the ship because it's current state isn't exactly workable.
I'm just being silly, love the Burnaby!
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