Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2012 15:55:42 GMT -8
I can see the Hybrid project for Hyak being success. If the Hybrid project works I can see it going to the other vessels in Washington State Ferries and maybe even BC Ferries. Will it be a success and actually save fuel? Probably. Is it money well spent? No. As has been previously said, this is a 45 year old vessel. We will be much better off investing funds into new-builds to replace the Super Class vessels. Don't forget, Washington is also investigating LNG as a possible fuel source for its vessels, and there has been talk about equipping one of the New Olympic Class vessels with LNG. It won't be on the first two vessels, but perhaps after that. I think the Olympic Class should get Hybrid engines instead of LNG Fuel engines because the Hybrid engines would be more environmentally friendly and will like save more money than the Liquefied Natural Gas.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2012 15:19:41 GMT -8
|
|
SolDuc
Voyager
West Coast Cyclist
SolDuc and SOBC - Photo by Scott
Posts: 2,055
|
Post by SolDuc on Dec 8, 2012 17:44:21 GMT -8
And a fresh picture of the MV Tokitae, from the Kitsap's picklefork. They added the end. MV Tokitae by BrasegaliWA, on Flickr According to the above post, the construction on the Samish is going to start this month. That means that they will have to do the Tokitae roll-out this month. Anybody knows when?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2012 19:40:01 GMT -8
From compdude787 comment: Will the 1500 passengers capacity have an effect on the Seattle-Bremerton and Anacortes to San Juan Island route ounce the Supers, 2000 passengers capacity, are retired?
|
|
|
Post by Barnacle on Dec 17, 2012 5:54:04 GMT -8
Will the 1500 passengers capacity have an effect on the Seattle-Bremerton and Anacortes to San Juan Island route ounce the Supers, 2000 passengers capacity, are retired? I can't speak to Bremerton, but definitely not in the San Juans. The tallest passenger count I've ever seen was just under 1100.
|
|
FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
|
Post by FNS on Dec 17, 2012 8:40:21 GMT -8
And a fresh picture of the MV Tokitae, from the Kitsap's picklefork. They added the end. MV Tokitae by BrasegaliWA, on Flickr According to the above post, the construction on the Samish is going to start this month. That means that they will have to do the Tokitae roll-out this month. Anybody knows when? The roll-out may be announced in the weekly USCG Notice To Mariners: www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=lnmDistrict®ion=13Click on the newest posting and look for Duwamish River and any activities associated with VIGOR. They usually issue a safety zone with no wake requested. These were issued when the KDT hulls were rolled out onto the drydock during their construction.
|
|
SolDuc
Voyager
West Coast Cyclist
SolDuc and SOBC - Photo by Scott
Posts: 2,055
|
Post by SolDuc on Dec 29, 2012 0:49:00 GMT -8
I guess the construction on the Samish will start later than envisioned:
|
|
|
Post by chokai on Dec 29, 2012 16:12:15 GMT -8
Well there's plenty of stuff that can be done outside of the assembly hall. Such as building the bows down in Tacoma and preparing the passenger cabin sections up north.
Vigor is actually building these boats in a fairly modern way with lots of pre-fabbed stuff built off site or in other facilities and brought in. Though they aren't doing it like the big yards in Asia and Europe do where the whole section is finished including interior electrical and other work before being dropped in puzzle piece style. And they are hardly Boeing with that freaky 737 line. :-)
|
|
FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
|
Post by FNS on Dec 30, 2012 19:22:09 GMT -8
PROGRESS PHOTOS OF THE NEW MV TOKITAETaken on Sunday, December 30, 2012: The upperworks of the new MV TOKITAE is taking shape at Nichols Brothers. Screened railings are being installed on the Sun Deck. Tubular railings are installed on the crew decks. Ends are shielded, so it is most likely a purpose that we can't see welding work being done inside. The other side. Notice the "holes" cut out for the MES stations on the Saloon Deck. It looks like another month until we see this huge structure being moved off this site and installed onto the hull in Seattle.
|
|
|
Post by Steve Rosenow on Dec 31, 2012 0:23:57 GMT -8
Those are impressive photos! Love the looks of those!
|
|
|
Post by compdude787 on Jan 4, 2013 15:03:17 GMT -8
Let's get back on topic re: routes for these boats: So, I guess Columbia Beach may get the new MV TOKITAE and the San Juans the new MV SAMISH. I agree, the Tokitae will probably get put on the Mukilteo-Clinton route, since that route REALLY needs additional capacity in the summer. I go to Whidbey Island in the summer on the weekends, and the three most recent times I've taken the ferry there have been extremely long lines, so much so that one time, when the line was backed up all the way to the hilltop @ Mukilteo, we decided to turn around and go across Deception Pass to get on Whidbey Island. Mukilteo-Clinton desperately needs a bigger ferry, and so I really hope WSF will put the first Olympic class boat up there. Our Canadian friends coming down I-5 drive by a beautiful body of water called Lake Samish. They'll likely find themselves taking the ferry SAMISH to the San Juan Islands. Good choice for a northern ferry. Near the namesake lake. [...] That's a good point you make for the Samish to be on Anacortes-San Juan Islands. Additionally the Samish tribe is located in Anacortes. I hope that WSF will make sure that whatever boat serves a route will have some geographical significance to the area. They've generally been good with this, except with the Chetzy. As for the third Olympic class, which the Legislature will probably allocate $$ for soon, I bet it will serve Bremerton-Seattle in the winter and Anacortes-San Juans (or Sidney, to replace the Elwha) in the summer. The only issue with the Olympics is that their pax capacity may be a little on the low end for the Seattle-Bremerton route, since it has less pax capacity than the Supers do. (1500 as opposed to 2000 w/ the Supers)
|
|
|
Post by chokai on Jan 4, 2013 16:36:37 GMT -8
Hrmm... I don't think the 1,500 will be to low on Bremerton for capacity on paper. The Issaquahs are fine for raw people count at 1,200 (none of my coworkers has ever said they got left behind for example unlike with Salish recently) but they have a small cabin making for a miserable cramped experience for people. The Olympics are both longer and wider and also have the sun deck so people will get a little more room to spread out.
Side bar it looks pretty obvious that the Olympic design is setup to have those upper sun-deck shelters enclosed some day as has been talked about with the JMII's from time to time. I'm sure with that and more rescue equipment that'd push the capacity up to near 2,000, there are over 200 seats up there partially sheltered already.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 17:27:51 GMT -8
Hrmm... I don't think the 1,500 will be to low on Bremerton for capacity on paper. The Issaquahs are fine for raw people count at 1,200 (none of my coworkers has ever said they got left behind for example unlike with Salish recently) but they have a small cabin making for a miserable cramped experience for people. The Olympics are both longer and wider and also have the sun deck so people will get a little more room to spread out. Really? I thought that the passengers capacity was the reason the Kitsap is bad on the Seattle to Bremerton route.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 17:33:12 GMT -8
Side bar it looks pretty obvious that the Olympic design is setup to have those upper sun-deck shelters enclosed some day as has been talked about with the JMII's from time to time. I'm sure with that and more rescue equipment that'd push the capacity up to near 2,000, there are over 200 seats up there partially sheltered already. I do not think the side bar is designed to be enclosed. Really, I have know I deal what the side bar is?
|
|
|
Post by compdude787 on Jan 4, 2013 17:45:30 GMT -8
Side bar it looks pretty obvious that the Olympic design is setup to have those upper sun-deck shelters enclosed some day as has been talked about with the JMII's from time to time. I'm sure with that and more rescue equipment that'd push the capacity up to near 2,000, there are over 200 seats up there partially sheltered already. I do not think the side bar is designed to be enclosed. Really, I have know I deal what the side bar is? I don't think you read his comment that closely. Chokai is referring to the sun-deck shelters, not some thing called the "side bar."
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 18:06:45 GMT -8
I do not think the side bar is designed to be enclosed. Really, I have know I deal what the side bar is? I don't think you read his comment that closely. Chokai is referring to the sun-deck shelters, not some thing called the "side bar." I do not think the sun-deck shelters is designed to be enclosed. The sun-deck shelters on the Olympic Class look like the shelters from the Super Class.
|
|
|
Post by Steve Rosenow on Jan 4, 2013 18:21:30 GMT -8
I can speak with sound authority (and so can my sister, who works for WSF and Kitsap Transit @ the Bremerton terminal) that ANY Issaquah-class vessel on the Bremerton-Seattle route is bad business. It is a bad idea. So much so, that even the dock crews hate them on that route.
|
|
|
Post by Steve Rosenow on Jan 4, 2013 18:23:32 GMT -8
Side bar it looks pretty obvious that the Olympic design is setup to have those upper sun-deck shelters enclosed some day as has been talked about with the JMII's from time to time. I'm sure with that and more rescue equipment that'd push the capacity up to near 2,000, there are over 200 seats up there partially sheltered already. I have not seen any documentation supporting that claim, not even in the plans drawn up for them. As I understand, the shelters on those were drawn off the Super-class. They sure bear a striking resemblance to such.
|
|
|
Post by Political Incorrectness on Jan 4, 2013 18:42:56 GMT -8
I can speak with sound authority (and so can my sister, who works for WSF and Kitsap Transit @ the Bremerton terminal) that ANY Issaquah-class vessel on the Bremerton-Seattle route is bad business. It is a bad idea. So much so, that even the dock crews hate them on that route. I am curious why the dock crews hate them? I know they are much louder than the Supers to where on summer nights, I can easily hear them when they are close to the bend and a good distance through Rich Passage. I would rather have an Issaquah than the Salish but they are definitely not the greatest vessel to have.
|
|
|
Post by Steve Rosenow on Jan 4, 2013 19:36:32 GMT -8
When I was at the Seattle toll plaza about two or three months ago on one of my crossings to Bremerton, I made reference to the fact that they need to get the Kitsap off of the run and the lady who took my toll fee, agreed wholeheartedly with me. The problem @ Seattle at times is they've had cars left at the dock @ peak commute times, whereas with a Super, that rarely, if ever, happens. That and many commuters complain about how cramped it is and how poor of a decision it is to put those vessels on a high-volume route. Granted, Seattle-Bremerton's not the most populous run in the system anymore, but it deserves a hell of a lot better treatment than putting an Issaquah-class vessel on it. And it seems anytime WSF does things right by replacing the Kitsap with another Super, the other Super doesn't stick around long.
|
|
|
Post by Barnacle on Jan 5, 2013 4:42:43 GMT -8
The Kitsap's off the run now. Careful what you wish for. Seriously, though, I think you're falling into the same trap that many Bainbridge Islanders do: forgetting that yours is not the only run in the system. The Kitsap would, for example, leave traffic behind in the San Juans, too--albeit mostly commercial traffic this time of year--and that next sailing for Friday Harbor isn't for FOUR hours, rather than one and a half. Someone's going to get shorted somewhere.
|
|
|
Post by Steve Rosenow on Jan 5, 2013 5:36:49 GMT -8
The Kitsap's off the run now. Careful what you wish for. Seriously, though, I think you're falling into the same trap that many Bainbridge Islanders do: forgetting that yours is not the only run in the system. The Kitsap would, for example, leave traffic behind in the San Juans, too--albeit mostly commercial traffic this time of year--and that next sailing for Friday Harbor isn't for FOUR hours, rather than one and a half. Someone's going to get shorted somewhere. I realize it's not the only run. Trust me when I say that. I know the Walla Walla's out due to that drive motor meltdown but it seems anytime the Walla Walla ISN'T on that route, they put the Kitsap on it. Insomuch as I'd rather not ever ride on the Walla Walla again for a rather disgusting incident I witnessed aboard it over the summer (and have flashbacks, lol), I'd rather see it on the run. I just don't see why TPTB at WSF don't see the benefit when they put two Supers back on the run, honestly. It's the best combination for what we have now. Just my $.02 adjusted for inflation and all that happiness.
|
|
|
Post by Kahloke on Jan 5, 2013 7:42:48 GMT -8
There is no doubt that the ferry system is really stretched thin right now. Whatever vessels are available is basically what we get. Hopefully, the addition of Tokitae and Samish will relieve some of the pressure and add some much needed capacity. At that time, perhaps we can see a shift of larger vessels to Bremerton and the Kitsap can be used primarily elsewhere, such as F-V-S. For now, we just have to muddle through.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2013 16:40:47 GMT -8
The Kitsap's off the run now. Careful what you wish for. Seriously, though, I think you're falling into the same trap that many Bainbridge Islanders do: forgetting that yours is not the only run in the system. The Kitsap would, for example, leave traffic behind in the San Juans, too--albeit mostly commercial traffic this time of year--and that next sailing for Friday Harbor isn't for FOUR hours, rather than one and a half. Someone's going to get shorted somewhere. But, the San Juan Islands have two Supers year around plus another ferry which goes Sidney in the Fall, spring, and the Sealth during winter and a third Super for the summer serving the Anacortes / San Juan Islands, the Evergreen State as the inter-Island ferry (year around), and Chelan doing two round trips to Sidney during the summer. I would see people getting left behind if they had a one 144 car ferry, two 124 car ferries or Sealth (90 cars) serving the Anacortes / San Juan Islands and the Evergreen State as the inter-Island ferry during the spring and fall. But, I think Washington would not do that. The following are when the first two Olympic Class are online: San Juan Islands would have two Supers, Chelan (one Sidney round trip per day) serving the Anacortes / San Juan Islands and the Sealth as the inter-island ferry during spring, fall schedule. For the San Juan Islands two Supers, Olympic class serving the Anacortes / San Juan Islands plus the Chelan or the Elwha serving the two round trips on the Anacortes / Sidney B.C and the Sealth as the inter-island ferry during summer schedule. Two Supers, Chelan serving the Anacortes / San Juan Islands and the Salish as the inter-island ferry during winter schedule. Bremerton could have the Kaleetan and an Olympic Class during the fall, winter, spring schedules and have the Walla Walla and a 124 car Issaquah class during the summer schedule.
|
|
|
Post by Kahloke on Jan 5, 2013 18:28:02 GMT -8
The following are when the first two Olympic Class are online: San Juan Islands would have two Supers, Chelan (one Sidney round trip per day) serving the Anacortes / San Juan Islands and the Sealth as the inter-island ferry during spring, fall schedule. For the San Juan Islands two Supers, Olympic class serving the Anacortes / San Juan Islands plus the Chelan or the Elwha serving the two round trips on the Anacortes / Sidney B.C and the Sealth as the inter-island ferry during summer schedule. Two Supers, Chelan serving the Anacortes / San Juan Islands and the Salish as the inter-island ferry during winter schedule. Bremerton could have the Kaleetan and an Olympic Class during the fall, winter, spring schedules and have the Walla Walla and a 124 car Issaquah class during the summer schedule. I don't agree with having any Issaquah-Class vessel on Bremerton after the Tokitae and Samish enter service. Hopefully, having those two vessels would precipitate a bump in capacity, particularly for Bremerton. Having said that, here is my take on potential vessel rotations once the Tokitae and Samish enter service: SUMMER SCHEDULEPD-T: ChetzemokaF-V-S: Issaquah, Kitsap, KittitasSEA-BRE: Kaleetan, Walla WallaSEA-BAI: Tacoma, WenatcheeEDM-KIN: Puyallup, SpokaneMUK-CLI: Cathlamet, TokitaePT-KEY: Kennewick, SalishANA-SJI: Hyak, Samish, YakimaANA-SID: ChelanINT ISL: Sealthstandby/reserve: Elwha, Klahowya, Tillikum retired: Evergreen State, Hiyu SPRING/FALL SCHEDULEPD-T: ChetzemokaF-V-S: Issaquah, Kitsap, KittitasSEA-BRE: Hyak, KaleetanSEA-BAI: Tacoma, WenatcheeEDM-KIN: Puyallup, SpokaneMUK-CLI: Cathlamet, TokitaePT-KEY: Kennewick, Salish(late spring/early fall)ANA-SJI-SID: Elwha, Samish, YakimaINT ISL: Sealthstandby/reserve: Chelan, Klahowya, Tillikum, Walla Walla WINTER SCHEDULEPD-T: ChetzemokaF-V-S: Issaquah, Kitsap, Tillikum(Mon-Fri)SEA-BRE: Kaleetan, TokitaeSEA-BAI: Tacoma, WenatcheeEDM-KIN: Puyallup, SpokaneMUK-CLI: Cathlamet, KittitasPT-KEY: KennewickANA-SJI: Chelan, Samish, YakimaINT ISL (Mon-Fri): Sealthstandby/reserve: Elwha, Hyak, Klahowya, Salish, Walla Walla
|
|