Neil
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Post by Neil on Apr 1, 2012 21:33:06 GMT -8
...the generation that will live on past my life experience, may be limited to such things as wall mart greeter! mrdot. Ahem. 'Ahem' if you like, but I think mrdot was simply making the pretty much unarguable observation that young folks entering the job market today do not have the same ready opportunities for good paying, long lasting jobs that people of his and my generation had. I'm fairly certain he was not making any negative assumptions about your capabilities or aspirations. Sorry for the diversion.
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mrdot
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Mr. DOT
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Post by mrdot on Apr 1, 2012 21:48:24 GMT -8
:)yes, thank-you for your perceptive observation, I just fear the younger generation will not have the same opportunities that we had presented to us, and I certainly wish better long term goals! :)mrdot.
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Post by lmtengs on Apr 6, 2012 18:58:45 GMT -8
Three short videos from aboard the Northern Adventure:
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Post by Mike C on Apr 8, 2012 21:23:38 GMT -8
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Post by Mike C on Apr 8, 2012 21:55:28 GMT -8
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Post by uricanejack on May 9, 2012 23:47:02 GMT -8
I noticed a few comments about the lack of a bow door on the Northern Adventure. Not all ferries have bow doors. Sometimes its due to dock configuration. I.e. the Coho has side doors.
The Northern runs are not so pressured for turn around time as southern routes so a bow door is not essential.
There are some advantages in addition to driving through. Bow docking or landings are quicker and easier especially in strong winds.
A big disadvantage is the Bow is required to be one of the strongest framed areas of a ship especially if encountering bad weather. A bow door seriously weakens this area of the ship. Some designs such as a Bow Visor may be sufficient but are usually to narrow for a double lane load and discharge.
There is also a problem with watertight integrity with Bow Doors. Inner Bow doors are now required as visors are not weather tight.
After the Estonia sinking both the Queen Of The North and the Queen of Prince Rupert had their visors welded shut until they had additional car deck subdivision doors fitted.
Oddly when a ferry or Ro Ro primarily loads drop trailers it is easier to load and discharge from only one end. If you back the trailers on you can drive of and get another without having to worry about access. Eventually leaving the tractor unit attached to the last drop loaded. Then for discharge just drive it straight off and come back for the next..
If loading a double ended ferry with drops you always have to drive past the drop trailers already loaded in order to park each successive drop. And you have to be able to get the tractor to the front for discharge. This requires a lot of space be left as unavailable to be loaded with drop trailers.
The Northern Adventure is primarily intended to serve on the Haida Gwai route in the summer and relieve on both Northern routes in winter. Without the heavy traffic and tight turn around required down south she is just fine for the task with just a stern door.
The Northern Expedition has a bow door. The advantages of which were probably considered as outweighing the disadvantages when designed and built as a new constructed vessel for the routes especially as she is intended to serve as the primary vessel on the North South run which carries relatively few drop trailers. Where RVs Busses and private vehicles are the predominate traffic.
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WettCoast
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Post by WettCoast on May 10, 2012 9:54:29 GMT -8
In general, I can agree with Uricanejack on his comments about the lack of bow loading on the NorAd. As this vessel is now the designated summer boat to Haida Gwaii, there is not much pressure re turn around time so the disadvantage of not having drive-through loading/unloading is muted.
On the other hand, when the NorAd works on both routes 10 & 11, as is the case right now, turn around time can be an issue. This happens all too frequently due to weather delays. Whereas the NorEx can turn around in as little as two hours, the NorAd will need at least three. It may take three of four days for the NorAd to get back on schedule following weather delays; the NorEx will catch up much faster, and do so with significantly less fuel consumption.
Another drawback that I see is that during the past winter, and in winters to come for the foreseeable future, the NorAd will just sit at Deas Dock, unused, collecting dust as it were. I believe that it could work as a relief vessel on routes such as Comox - Powell River. However, the lack of bow loading is certainly an issue, as is the choice by BCFS to adopt the European style berthing arrangements. That means that the NorAd (& the NorEx too) can be berthed in five locations only, all on BC's north & central coasts. To berth at southern terminals a 'plug' is required. As such, neither northern ship are likely to be used for any relief work on southern routes.
Lastly you seem to be suggesting that the NorAd is a safer boat because it does not have bow loading capability. Does this mean that you believe the NorEx is less safe because it does have such?
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Nick
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Post by Nick on May 10, 2012 11:38:57 GMT -8
Lastly you seem to be suggesting that the NorAd is a safer boat because it does not have bow loading capability. Does this mean that you believe the NorEx is less safe because it does have such? I believe UricaneJack was referring to the fact that the NorEx has a fundamentally weakened fore end structure because it has a bow visor. There is nothing to get around this, the NorAd's front end will always be a stronger design because it doesn't have a hole in it. That does not necessarily mean the NorEx isn't a safe boat, and honestly there are so many variables it would be impossible to say that one is safer than the other. Only that the NorAd does not have the fundamental weakness of a bow visor, whereas the NorEx does.
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Post by uricanejack on May 10, 2012 11:58:05 GMT -8
I would not suggest the Northern Expedition is unsafe. Or the Northern Adventure is safer than the Northern Expedition. The whole design would need to be compared.
The provision of a Bow Door of any kind is a weakness in any vessel. A vessel without a Bow Door is at less risk of flooding if encountering heavy seas or in the event of a collision. By implication a vessel is less safe with a bow door than the same vessel without a bow door.
However a properly designed built and maintained bow door which is fit for purpose for the route and worst weather conditions expected to be encountered in the area of operation is safe enough. As long as the ship is operated with due consideration to the possibility of damage to the bow door and possible consequences witch may be caused by operating at to high a speed in heavy seas. “Estonia”
BC Ferries restricts both vessels to not sail if wave heights are expected to exceed 3.5m or 4m.
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Post by Low Light Mike on May 31, 2012 17:09:34 GMT -8
The newspaper "Queen Charlotte Observer" did a freedom-of-information request to BC Ferries for the official report into the Nov.22, 2009 rough-sea incident with NorAd on the Haida Gwaii route. See news story here: www.qciobserver.com/Article.aspx?Id=5484See FOI response here: foi.bcferries.com/2012-012-responsiverecord-1.pdf------------------------- There was a prior incident in 2007 which resulted in various new operating procedures. - Some of those procedures weren't followed in this 2009 incident. And so it's distressing to see that some of the new 2009 recommendations are simply "to follow the existing recommendations" because they hadn't been followed. ie. Why wouldn't the NorAd's master have followed them in the first place?
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WettCoast
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Post by WettCoast on May 31, 2012 17:56:48 GMT -8
That report is fairly shocking. BCFS was much less than forthcoming at the time. It is only because FOI requirements were re-applied to BC Ferries that this sorry story has now come out.
What, if any, discipline was given to the master in question?
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Koastal Karl
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Post by Koastal Karl on May 31, 2012 19:17:08 GMT -8
Not gonna lie! That would of been a fun saling as crazy as it sounds! If your into that wild crazy ride!
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Neil
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Post by Neil on May 31, 2012 22:01:18 GMT -8
Not gonna lie! That would of been a fun saling as crazy as it sounds! If your into that wild crazy ride! 'as crazy as it sounds', I can understand why passengers were terrified, and I don't understand the opinion, expressed on this forum by a few at the time, that people should just understand the nature of ferry travel to Haida Gwaii. Most non-ferry fans are not looking for 'wild crazy rides', and this sounds like a serious lapse of seamanship on the part of the captain.
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Post by gordon on Sept 26, 2012 13:32:57 GMT -8
Why is the NorAd sailing in the place of the Nor EX today( according tho the BCF vessel Tracking)?
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Koastal Karl
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Post by Koastal Karl on Sept 26, 2012 16:20:42 GMT -8
maybe the Nor Ad is running in place of the Nor Ex this winter!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2012 16:32:45 GMT -8
maybe the Nor Ad is running in place of the Nor Ex this winter! Nope the Nor Ex still in place for the winter as the only Vessel on the Inside passage and the Haida Gwaii routes.
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Post by Mike C on Sept 26, 2012 16:45:40 GMT -8
maybe the Nor Ad is running in place of the Nor Ex this winter! Nope the Nor Ex still in place for the winter as the only Vessel on the Inside passage and the Haida Gwaii routes. Not necessarily. In the spring, on a planned group trip, they swapped the NorEx out for the NorAd a few days prior.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2012 17:12:50 GMT -8
Nope the Nor Ex still in place for the winter as the only Vessel on the Inside passage and the Haida Gwaii routes. Not necessarily. In the spring, on a planned group trip, they swapped the NorEx out for the NorAd a few days prior. Find most winter season the Nor Ex is the main vessel on both routes!
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Post by Mike C on Sept 26, 2012 17:17:38 GMT -8
Not necessarily. In the spring, on a planned group trip, they swapped the NorEx out for the NorAd a few days prior. Find most winter season the Nor Ex is the main vessel on both routes! Whoosh Doesn't mean it can't happen, as it has happened in the past.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2012 17:31:02 GMT -8
Find most winter season the Nor Ex is the main vessel on both routes! Whoosh Doesn't mean it can't happen, as it has happened in the past. What does "Whoosh" mean? When has this happened before?
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Post by Mike C on Sept 26, 2012 18:11:57 GMT -8
When has this happened before? Not necessarily. In the spring, on a planned group trip, they swapped the NorEx out for the NorAd a few days prior.
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WettCoast
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Post by WettCoast on Sept 26, 2012 20:45:30 GMT -8
The reality is that the summer day cruise service on route 10 runs until September 30th. That service has been provided since 2009 by the Northern Expedition. The NorEx (to my knowledge) has never until now failed to complete its scheduled sailings during three years worth of summer day cruises. Today, for some unknown reason, they have replaced her with the NorAd. There must be an explanation. There is no service notice posted on the BCFS official website.
What will happen with tomorrow's scheduled return sailing to Haida Gwaii? Will the NorEx do it, or will it be delayed?
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WettCoast
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Post by WettCoast on Sept 27, 2012 9:27:12 GMT -8
I did some checking on the BCFS Travel Centre page and it appears that they have simply switched around the NorAd & NorEx for the remainder of September. So the NorEx will make a run over to Skidegate this afternoon returning at midnight tonight. Tomorrow (Friday) it will do the 'milk run' south to Port Hardy, returning Saturday evening. Meanwhile, the NorAd is doing the last two summer 'day cruise' round trips on the Inside Passage. It will arrive in Port Hardy at 10:30 PM Sunday evening for the last time this year. I assume it will be heading south to Deas on Monday, to be laid up there for the next six months.
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Post by lmtengs on Sept 28, 2012 14:15:43 GMT -8
I did some checking on the BCFS Travel Centre page and it appears that they have simply switched around the NorAd & NorEx for the remainder of September. So the NorEx will make a run over to Skidegate this afternoon returning at midnight tonight. Tomorrow (Friday) it will do the 'milk run' south to Port Hardy, returning Saturday evening. Meanwhile, the NorAd is doing the last two summer 'day cruise' round trips on the Inside Passage. It will arrive in Port Hardy at 10:30 PM Sunday evening for the last time this year. I assume it will be heading south to Deas on Monday, to be laid up there for the next six months. Would this be because BCF is expecting heavy weather in the Hecate?
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WettCoast
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Post by WettCoast on Sept 28, 2012 14:43:40 GMT -8
Would this be because BCF is expecting heavy weather in the Hecate? It very well could be. How else would you explain a seemingly strange move by BCFS? Too bad for those folks shelling out the full summer fare for the Inside Passage Day Cruise - they get to ride the NoRad with a much reduced level of service/amenities when compared with the NorEx.
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