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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 16, 2013 14:50:57 GMT -8
Did the 'Chilliwack run late this often when she was the regular winter boat? I'm having trouble understanding why she's doing so poorly now when she was a regular on this run up until 2009. Did the schedule get changed at some point? One possible change might be the use of the McGregor Doors on the car-deck, but I'd be surprised if the use of those doors is required for the Jervis Inlet route. |
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Post by Ferryman on Sept 16, 2013 15:14:47 GMT -8
I have a feeling that the McGregor Doors are what's causing most of the delays. The last time she served on that route, she didn't have them. So the loading operations on that ship have changed, making it an even more cumbersome ship to use especially on a short run like Jervis Inlet. That being said, I'm optimistic that the operating efficiencies will be identified over the coming weeks and hopefully the delays will be kept to a minimum.
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Nick
Voyager 
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,080 
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Post by Nick on Sept 16, 2013 15:24:57 GMT -8
Did the 'Chilliwack run late this often when she was the regular winter boat? I'm having trouble understanding why she's doing so poorly now when she was a regular on this run up until 2009. Did the schedule get changed at some point? One possible change might be the use of the McGregor Doors on the car-deck, but I'd be surprised if the use of those doors is required for the Jervis Inlet route. Thank you. That was the missing part of the puzzle for me. I completely forgot about those doors. |
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 16, 2013 16:39:28 GMT -8
One possible change might be the use of the McGregor Doors on the car-deck, but I'd be surprised if the use of those doors is required for the Jervis Inlet route. Thank you. That was the missing part of the puzzle for me. I completely forgot about those doors. Here are those doors in action: |
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Post by ferryfanyvr on Sept 16, 2013 17:35:10 GMT -8
When I rode the Chilliwack on route 17 almost 2 years ago, the McGregor doors were not used (much to my disappointment). So if they weren't used on that route, is it likely they're being used on the more sheltered route 7?
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Post by WettCoast on Sept 16, 2013 18:02:01 GMT -8
If those doors are in use, the delay is understandable. However, I really don't see them being used on the Jervis Inlet route unless Transport Canada now requires their use in sheltered waters.
If those doors are not being used, then what else would explain the delays?
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Post by gordon on Sept 17, 2013 15:11:13 GMT -8
are the McGregor doors warertight doors. Has BC.. Ferries released any mor nes of The Chilliwack's replacement?
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Post by compdude787 on Sept 17, 2013 15:42:25 GMT -8
are the McGregor doors warertight doors. Has BC.. Ferries released any mor nes of The Chilliwack's replacement? Yes, the McGregor doors are watertight doors that are meant to divide the car deck into multiple compartments. So, if some water gets into part of the car deck, the McGregor doors are meant to keep the whole car deck from getting flooded. I still don't get why they would have to use them on Route 7 though. Regarding the Chilliwack's replacement, I don't think they have any solid plans yet to replace this ferry that was built in 1978. BCF has many ferries that were built in the mid-60s (and one from 1958) that will most likely be replaced before the Chilliwack. |
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Sept 17, 2013 15:51:40 GMT -8
are the McGregor doors warertight doors. Has BC.. Ferries released any mor nes of The Chilliwack's replacement? Yes, the McGregor doors are watertight doors that are meant to divide the car deck into multiple compartments. So, if some water gets into part of the car deck, the McGregor doors are meant to keep the whole car deck from getting flooded. I still don't get why they would have to use them on Route 7 though. Regarding the Chilliwack's replacement, I don't think they have any solid plans yet to replace this ferry that was built in 1978. BCF has many ferries that were built in the mid-60s (and one from 1958) that will most likely be replaced before the Chilliwack. It would not make sense to use the McGregor doors on route seven. But I do not know the law for the doors. For the replacement, I total agree with compdude787. We would need another route 40 vessel which is not the Nimpkish. |
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SolDuc
Voyager
West Coast Cyclist
SolDuc and SOBC - Photo by Scott
Posts: 2,055
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Post by SolDuc on Sept 17, 2013 16:10:34 GMT -8
Yes, the McGregor doors are watertight doors that are meant to divide the car deck into multiple compartments. So, if some water gets into part of the car deck, the McGregor doors are meant to keep the whole car deck from getting flooded. I still don't get why they would have to use them on Route 7 though. Regarding the Chilliwack's replacement, I don't think they have any solid plans yet to replace this ferry that was built in 1978. BCF has many ferries that were built in the mid-60s (and one from 1958) that will most likely be replaced before the Chilliwack. It would not make sense to use the McGregor doors on route seven. But I do not know the law for the doors. For the replacement, I total agree with compdude787. We would need another route 40 vessel which is not the Nimpkish.How about getting an efficient design for the B-class instead of discussing the replacement of a ship whose main route is very likely to be deleted or reduced in capacity? Compdude: BCFs is not known for replacing its ships in the order that they were built. I know that this is weird but they're more likely to retire the Wack (without any true replacement before the PR Class, for instance. |
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Post by Ferryman on Sept 17, 2013 16:14:17 GMT -8
The McGregor Doors are not really watertight doors in the same sense of what a normal watertight door is. A watertight door is typically a door which is set upon a bulkhead that divides the ship into various compartments, and are really only found below the uppermost continuous watertight deck. This maintains watertight integrity for the compartments once the door is of course closed. In this case, the McGregor doors are different in the sense that they don't really divide the car deck into water tight compartments since they're only running as high as Deck 3, not Deck 4. The decking on Deck two would be considered the uppermost continuous watertight deck. The McGregor doors are more for if the bow door itself was to fail (remember MV Estonia), and water was to ingress into the car deck. These doors prevents water from collecting on the entire deck where you would then have issues with free surface effect (risk of capsizing). These doors would only help stop water from rushing to the other end of the ship, and help minimize the risk of capsizing.
Pretty smart idea in the grand scheme of things, however it would make for tricky loading operations. Tetris game anyone?
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Post by Curtis on Sept 18, 2013 0:56:03 GMT -8
I took a round trip on the Chilliwack earlier today (now yesterday) to see if I could find a reason for these delays. (also because I haven't been on the Chilliwack since her MLU) I can confirm that the McGregor Doors were Not in use so we can scratch that as the cause of these delays. Personally, I think the reason for the delays is the timing of the schedule. One minor delay occurs and she's late for the rest of the day. (or until Crew Change occurs) The Island Sky can make up the time since she's a new ship and can easily push 15 Knots, but for the Chilliwack, usually operating at 11 Knots, it is almost impossible to make up time. Suspecting this I clocked the Chilliwack's crossing times today: one-way took about 55 Minutes in both directions while the round-trip took about 2 Hours. (Loading/Unloading in Saltery Bay not included) Now take a look at the current schedule... | Saltery Bay | Earls Cove | | 5:35 | 6:30 | | 7:25 | 8:25 | | 9:25 | 10:25 | | 11:20 | 12:20 | | 3:20 | 4:25 | | 5:25 | 6:25 | | 7:20 | 8:20 | | 9:15 | 10:05 |
The vessel departs about every hours or so, but throughout the day they'll add or subtract 5 minutes from one sailing to the next. With the crossing time at 50 Minutes, this can leave the vessel with just 5 minutes to dock, unload, load, and depart. This can no doubt be frustrating if there are more vehicles than expected for a sailing. So if the numbers I clocked for the Queen of Chilliwack today are accurate, most of the time she is arriving when she's supposed to be leaving. I'd like to see how she does on a modified schedule giving her a 55 Minute crossing time and 10-15 minutes in dock. I wouldn't doubt we see a drop in service notices and the amount of overtime paid per week. |
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Post by Curtis on Sept 18, 2013 21:03:57 GMT -8
Yesterday was my first ride on the Queen of Chilliwack since her MLU. Here are my thoughts. Warning: Photo Heavy!
All Photos are © CS16 Photography and may only be used with Permission from the Owner.Approaching Saltery Bay.  Queen of Chilliwack Approaching Berth 2, Saltery Bay. by CS16 Photography, on Flickr Unloading.  Queen of Chilliwack Unloading at Berth 2, Saltery Bay. by CS16 Photography, on Flickr Her car deck is definitely a lot cleaner looking than before.  Deck 2, Car Deck, Queen of Chilliwack. by CS16 Photography, on Flickr  Deck 3, Platform Ramp, Queen of Chilliwack. by CS16 Photography, on Flickr First I'll focus on the Interior. She really benefits from the Coastalized interior. It adds a bit more flavour to her while also keeping some of her original looks. It's unfortunate to see some things go such as the old signage and the classic red and green seating. At the same time though it's a breath of fresh air... though speaking of air she still has that distinct Queen of Chilliwack smell. One smell and the memories of past trips started coming back.  Deck 4, Cafeteria Seating, Queen of Chilliwack. by CS16 Photography, on Flickr Her Builder's Plaque, No sign of a MLU Plaque anywhere...  Builder's Plaque, Queen of Chilliwack. by CS16 Photography, on Flickr  Welcome Aboard Sign, Queen of Chilliwack. by CS16 Photography, on Flickr Speaking again about keeping her original looks, good choice to keep the old lounge seating.  Deck 4, Lounge, Queen of Chilliwack. by CS16 Photography, on Flickr Now to the Exterior. It's nice to see Bench Seating placed on both ends of the vessel.  No. 2 End Fo'c'sle, Queen of Chilliwack. by CS16 Photography, on Flickr One detail I was glad to see changed was along the walkway here. There used to be evacuation equipment blocking it, but thanks to the evacuation slides, it's passable again.  Deck 6, Sun Deck, Queen of Chilliwack. by CS16 Photography, on Flickr  Bridge, Queen of Chilliwack. by CS16 Photography, on Flickr  Life Ring, Queen of Chilliwack. by CS16 Photography, on Flickr Also nice that they left the doors to the Sun Room unlocked.  Deck 6, Sun Room, Queen of Chilliwack. by CS16 Photography, on Flickr  Deck 5, Promenade Deck, Queen of Chilliwack. by CS16 Photography, on Flickr Her bell is looking good, this is the most polished I've seen it... ever.  Ship's Bell, Queen of Chilliwack. by CS16 Photography, on Flickr  Deck 4, No. 1 End Fo'c'sle, Queen of Chilliwack. by CS16 Photography, on Flickr Interesting to note that on the No. 1 End the Benches are separated into 2 lines whereas on the No. 2 End they are all in one line. Shouldn't that be the other way around?  No. 1 End Fo'c'sle, Queen of Chilliwack. by CS16 Photography, on Flickr This will conclude the Chilliwack.  Deck 2, No. 1 End, Queen of Chilliwack. by CS16 Photography, on Flickr Overall I'd say I'm impressed with the post MLU Chilliwack, at the end of the day though, she's still the same undisputed "Queen of Running Behind."  Disembarking the Queen of Chilliwack at Berth 2, Saltery Bay. by CS16 Photography, on Flickr That's all for Now. |
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Post by compdude787 on Sept 18, 2013 21:42:45 GMT -8
Do you know if they used the McGregor doors on the Route 7 sailing?
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,298
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Post by Neil on Sept 18, 2013 21:51:52 GMT -8
You know, I really don't care about the 'classic red and green seating', or anything else that endears people to the 'Chilliwack... as far as I'm concerned, this vessel was the worst purchase BC Ferries ever made- yes, even worse than the Sunshine Coast Queen. The 'Chilliwack has never been suited to any run she's been on- too slow for the Comox and Jervis Inlet runs, and no passenger accommodations for the central coast, although, there is an entire deck for crew, which is utterly useless on the day runs. Oh, wait, I forgot... you can sleep on the floor.
And too slow, with difficult loading, in the Gulf Islands, for her brief un-illustrious time there.
Not to mention that the thing is hideous. This is truly a ferry that only ferry fans could love. BC Ferries has been challenged to make this scow work as well as they have... credit to them, over the years.
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Post by Curtis on Sept 18, 2013 22:09:55 GMT -8
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 18, 2013 22:17:00 GMT -8
Oh, wait, I forgot... you can sleep on the floor. ...or under a cafeteria table. --------------------- The route-40 experience on this ship is a "unique" travel experience. I've done a weekend-trip three times on that ship, and I've had quirky-interesting moments, and I've had overcrowded uncomfortable moments. The route-40 trip is not good value for anyone's tourism dollars. It is overpriced considering the lack of sleeping accommodation. But it is one of the few ways to see Burke Channel (on the way to Bella Coola), Ocean Falls, and downtown Klemtu. And if you want to experience what it was like to travel on a Union Steamship with poor loggers and locals sleeping in general lounge areas (like some loggers and locals did, who couldn't afford staterooms on those ships), then the Chilliwack gives you that opportunity. ...and that's probably why this here strange history time-traveller wannabe rode the Chilliwack 3 times on overnight Route-40 trips. |
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Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,887
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Post by Mill Bay on Sept 19, 2013 9:49:25 GMT -8
You know, I really don't care about the 'classic red and green seating', or anything else that endears people to the ' Chilliwack... as far as I'm concerned, this vessel was the worst purchase BC Ferries ever made- yes, even worse than the Sunshine Coast Queen. The ' Chilliwack has never been suited to any run she's been on - too slow for the Comox and Jervis Inlet runs, and no passenger accommodations for the central coast, although, there is an entire deck for crew, which is utterly useless on the day runs. Oh, wait, I forgot... you can sleep on the floor. And too slow, with difficult loading, in the Gulf Islands, for her brief un-illustrious time there. Not to mention that the thing is hideous. This is truly a ferry that only ferry fans could love. BC Ferries has been challenged to make this scow work as well as they have... credit to them, over the years. Finally, a chance to gain some points back for myself... At least in the ship-ugliness department. That's a pretty personal attack on the ship calling her a scow. (Where's Brett today?) Anyway most of the reason she might be a scow is because of BCFerries poor judgement in buying the ship and then constantly having to modify it to be suitable to any kind of service in local waters. If they had just left her in Norway, she might still be sailing with her sister ship somewhere, with pretty much her original appearance and no BCFerries modifications, on a nice short shuttle route across some Norwegian fjord where she might actually be able to keep the schedule. Just be glad BCFerries didn't buy both Basto's at the same time. They probably could have had a 2-for-1 sale on Norwegian ferries at the dealership. Think of the possibilities: a two-boat service on route 5, or route 9 or even route 7 or 17. Maybe two of them would have been able to keep the schedules. Or, better yet, a two ship service offered on route 40. One ship based out of Port Hardy and one out of Bella Coola could double to tourist capacity, but maybe not the accommodation provided. If you at least strip away all the BCFerries upgrades (including the beloved solarium), in her original configuration this ferry did not look half bad: it had symmetry, rugged good looks and even real lifeboats. |
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,298
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Post by Neil on Sept 19, 2013 10:11:49 GMT -8
You know, I really don't care about the 'classic red and green seating', or anything else that endears people to the ' Chilliwack... as far as I'm concerned, this vessel was the worst purchase BC Ferries ever made- yes, even worse than the Sunshine Coast Queen. The ' Chilliwack has never been suited to any run she's been on - too slow for the Comox and Jervis Inlet runs, and no passenger accommodations for the central coast, although, there is an entire deck for crew, which is utterly useless on the day runs. Oh, wait, I forgot... you can sleep on the floor. And too slow, with difficult loading, in the Gulf Islands, for her brief un-illustrious time there. Not to mention that the thing is hideous. This is truly a ferry that only ferry fans could love. BC Ferries has been challenged to make this scow work as well as they have... credit to them, over the years. Finally, a chance to gain some points back for myself... At least in the ship-ugliness department. That's a pretty personal attack on the ship calling her a scow. (Where's Brett today?) Anyway most of the reason she might be a scow is because of BCFerries poor judgement in buying the ship and then constantly having to modify it to be suitable to any kind of service in local waters. If they had just left her in Norway, she might still be sailing with her sister ship somewhere, with pretty much her original appearance and no BCFerries modifications, on a nice short shuttle route across some Norwegian fjord where she might actually be able to keep the schedule. Just be glad BCFerries didn't buy both Basto's at the same time. They probably could have had a 2-for-1 sale on Norwegian ferries at the dealership. Think of the possibilities: a two-boat service on route 5, or route 9 or even route 7 or 17. Maybe two of them would have been able to keep the schedules. Or, better yet, a two ship service offered on route 40. One ship based out of Port Hardy and one out of Bella Coola could double to tourist capacity, but maybe not the accommodation provided. If you at least strip away all the BCFerries upgrades (including the beloved solarium), in her original configuration this ferry did not look half bad: it had symmetry, rugged good looks and even real lifeboats. You're right; it didn't look 'half bad', it looked full bad, then, and now. It has all the 'symmetry (and) rugged good looks' of a shoebox covered with rectangular warts. One cannot make a 'personal attack' on the ' Chilliwack. It's not a person. And in this case, thank gawd for that. |
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Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,887
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Post by Mill Bay on Sept 19, 2013 10:17:25 GMT -8
One cannot make a 'personal attack' on the ' Chilliwack. It's not a person. Then ask yourself why a ship is called a 'she'. And, for linguistic purposes only: the word "gawd" has no dictionary results. |
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,298
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Post by Neil on Sept 19, 2013 11:31:55 GMT -8
One cannot make a 'personal attack' on the ' Chilliwack. It's not a person. Then ask yourself why a ship is called a 'she'. And, for linguistic purposes only: the word "gawd" has no dictionary results. Quirky nautical terminology aside, a ship is not a person, and therefore criticisms are not 'personal'. I don't know where you were looking, but a very quick search returned dictionary results on 'gawd' from Cambridge, Merriam Webster, MacMillan, and Oxford. |
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Post by Mike C on Sept 19, 2013 12:13:19 GMT -8
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Sept 19, 2013 16:43:45 GMT -8
I am surprised that BC Ferries has not modified the schedule on the Earls Cove-Saltery Bay since Queen of Chilliwack is always way behind the schedule; it total makes sense to do this.
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Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,887
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Post by Mill Bay on Sept 22, 2013 20:54:12 GMT -8
Possibly setting the record for sailing delays thus far... “You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means” Just to note that following those links finds that the particular word noted is still not a real word. Actually, it is more than one word, and can have vastly different colloquial or slang meanings depending on country and context. Anyway: After taking one trip on the Queen of Chilliwack today, I think there are a lot of things that could be said about her. Scow may be a bit harsh. I would say, don't knock it, 'til you've tried it. As for records, 10 consecutive days of being behind schedule and having posted service notices makes one wonder why BCFerries just did not issue one service notice before hand that the route would be using a modified schedule due to operational limitations of the vessel. Also, she is apparently running on only two of her RAD units, which might explain the lack of speed, but made for a decidedly smoother sailing on this route. Her new interior also looks quite nice. It almost makes one want to maybe take another trip, or two, on board, but it also has a certain sense of lack to it, as if there really isn't enough space on the inside. |
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Post by Dane on Sept 22, 2013 21:52:07 GMT -8
The two RAD thing seems like a critical detail. Any word on the return of a third or fourth?
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