PACIFICAT EXPLORER, DISCOVERY, VOYAGER - Photos & Discussion

[Starbucks Queen]

About bridges they do have their "pro´s" and "contra´s" - Bridges not strong enough etc., see the Tacoma Narrows bridge collapsing "life" here www.ketchum.org/bridgecollapse.html

I personally do always prefer a ferry, it´s more of a style to travel for sure. As well, I say here if you do have a bridge and there is a major accident - the bridge will be closed = route cut off. If you do have a problem on a ferry - ok that applies only if it isn´t a one-ship route you can still wait for another one.

Do I smell a RACIST The quote I talk of:

Chinese and east Indians would flock to the once peaceful islands. Taxes and the real estate market would sky-rocket...Vancouver Island would no longer be considered an "island".

Are you xenophobic - really ? Sounds so, poor guy but I am sure you are not a native American or Canadian either, so you are as well considered as an immigrant right ?

Of course ANY place becoming too crowded isn´t good and it causes - as stated very well - raise in real estate prices too. This sort of things has been happening always, in one or the other direction and it will too, in the future. People from Eastern Canada might move to the west, Europeans as well, and the above mentioned Asians - but I don´t think that it gives the right to imply that they are not good enough to live there - or to say it the other way around that their wealth is less worth than yours just because you are of a different heritage.

*rant over watching the bridge collapse*

[Political Incorrectness]

chivapcici

The old Tacoma Narrows bridge (known as Gallouping Gerty) was not designed right which led to the collapse of the bridge. Instead of having 6" layer of concrete it was only half that. That is why it swayed in the wind and ended up collapsing in that windstorm. If you make bad designs that is what will destroy a bridge. If you got a good design then there is nothing to worry about except the normal problems of a regular bridge.

[Quinsam]

Now, let's get back to topic on the Pacificats, what will Seaspan use them for?
England-British Columbia ferry service? That would be nice, but almost impossible, unless you made a river/Canal from Lake Superior-Vancouver. That would take a decade or more.

[Political Incorrectness]

welwyn said:

Now, let's get back to topic on the Pacificats, what will Seaspan use them for?
England-British Columbia ferry service? That would be nice, but almost impossible, unless you made a river/Canal from Lake Superior-Vancouver. That would take a decade or more.

Why go to England? That would take a month to comlete a voyage like that because you would be traveling half way around the world. Seaspan wanted to use them for there own route out of Tsawwassen is what I have heard before.

[Alex]

ferrymaniac101 said:

chivapcici

The old Tacoma Narrows bridge (known as Gallouping Gerty) was not designed right which led to the collapse of the bridge. Instead of having 6" layer of concrete it was only half that. That is why it swayed in the wind and ended up collapsing in that windstorm. If you make bad designs that is what will destroy a bridge. If you got a good design then there is nothing to worry about except the normal problems of a regular bridge.

Actually, it had more to do with the profile of the bridge, combined with an unfortunate coincidence. The trusses on the side of the bridge deck were filled in for esthetics, instead of being the simple truss shape (which would allow the wind to pass through the structure, moreso). The wind then drove the bridge at its natural frequency, which caused an oscillation on the bridge deck. Eventually, the stesses from the movement became to great, and the bridge failed.

Furthermore, it wasn't really a wind storm the day it collapsed. A quick search says it was a 40 mph wind, which is substantial, but not really a catastrophic or out-of-the-ordinary wind speed.

Apparently the design of the Lion's Gate Bridge is very similar to the old Tacoma Narrows bridge, with the exception of the trusses not being filled in, and a few other enhancements.

[Doug]

chivapcici said:

Do I smell a RACIST The quote I talk of:

Chinese and east Indians would flock to the once peaceful islands. Taxes and the real estate market would sky-rocket...Vancouver Island would no longer be considered an "island".

Are you xenophobic - really ? Sounds so, poor guy but I am sure you are not a native American or Canadian either, so you are as well considered as an immigrant right ?

Of course ANY place becoming too crowded isn´t good and it causes - as stated very well - raise in real estate prices too. This sort of things has been happening always, in one or the other direction and it will too, in the future. People from Eastern Canada might move to the west, Europeans as well, and the above mentioned Asians - but I don´t think that it gives the right to imply that they are not good enough to live there - or to say it the other way around that their wealth is less worth than yours just because you are of a different heritage.

*rant over watching the bridge collapse*

That is not racism...it is the truth. Just look at Richmond for example. Just look at Surrey for example. And the main reason I don't like it is because they seem too greedy to even learn our language...and some avoid it overall. They don't addapt. Why else don't I like it? We own a Christmas tree farm...and because the immigrants think "Christmas" is against their religion, the government wants to rename it the "Holiday tree". So we are giving up OUR traditions to make way for theirs. I am not saying all Asians are like that, but when an area has a dense population of them, they get worse. I have no problems with Native Americans or European Immigrants...we were the founders of this land.

This has nothing to do with wealth either...the average Asian moving here is very wealthy. Wealth usually comes with greed, though unfortunately.

[Balfour]

Well Said Doug! I'm not giving up my culture just for immigrants. They need to get used to it. They can keep their own culture if they want but we shouldn't have to give up ours. It is now politically incorrect to say "Merry Christmas" and now we have to call Christmas Break, "Winter Break." You know what I say? F*ck political correctness, and lets be as politically incorrect as we want!

[QTeen]

ferrymaniac101 said:

welwyn said:

Now, let's get back to topic on the Pacificats, what will Seaspan use them for?
England-British Columbia ferry service? That would be nice, but almost impossible, unless you made a river/Canal from Lake Superior-Vancouver. That would take a decade or more.

Why go to England? That would take a month to comlete a voyage like that because you would be traveling half way around the world. Seaspan wanted to use them for there own route out of Tsawwassen is what I have heard before.

Actually, I think a route to england would be a good idea, put new engines on them so they are not gas guzzlers anymore, and also make them go 40 knots. That would be excellent! And I would use it regularly.

[Political Incorrectness]

QTeen said:

ferrymaniac101 said:

Why go to England? That would take a month to comlete a voyage like that because you would be traveling half way around the world. Seaspan wanted to use them for there own route out of Tsawwassen is what I have heard before.

Actually, I think a route to england would be a good idea, put new engines on them so they are not gas guzzlers anymore, and also make them go 40 knots. That would be excellent! And I would use it regularly.

Gas guzzler or not it is an impractical idea DREAM ON HARRY!

[Low Light Mike]

re the "racism" issue talked about a few posts back on this thread.

I think that all stereotypes are started with some measure of truth re individual persons, but it becomes dangerous when it is then projected absolutely upon the entire population.

That's why I don't like all the uses of the word "They" in the earlier posts on this thread. "They" is all-encompassing and is ignorant of diversity within an ethnic group. "They" is a dangerous word to use when attributing a trait to an entire ethnic group. "They" indicates that each person in 1 overall group is the same as the next.

OK Doug & Jordan, response?

[Alex]

dougubell said:

We own a Christmas tree farm...and because the immigrants think "Christmas" is against their religion, the government wants to rename it the "Holiday tree". So we are giving up OUR traditions to make way for theirs.

Ha! That's funny. I have friends from all different nationalities and religions, and not one of them has a problem with Christmas. Mostly because if they bitched about Christmas, then they'd be hypocrites for celebrating their holidays. No, the stripping away of Christmas is all the result of politically correct white people. They're the ones who percieve the issue and forced all the changes through the government.

[Alex]

I feel the need to clarify that I'm white aswell...so that its clear that my comments aren't racist.

[Doug]

flugelhorn said:

re the "racism" issue talked about a few posts back on this thread.

I think that all stereotypes are started with some measure of truth re individual persons, but it becomes dangerous when it is then projected absolutely upon the entire population.

That's why I don't like all the uses of the word "They" in the earlier posts on this thread. "They" is all-encompassing and is ignorant of diversity within an ethnic group. "They" is a dangerous word to use when attributing a trait to an entire ethnic group. "They" indicates that each person in 1 overall group is the same as the next.

OK Doug & Jordan, response?

I already clarified once that not all Asians are like this...I should say most aren't.

[Dane]

Seaspan is looking at talking to the Ferry Commission and running them out of and into possibly one or two BCF terminals to create a niche market. All the ships require recert, which is expensive but they're also a multi-million dollar a month company. Cascade has this info, it's been on the board before. It's not a secret.

[Starbucks Queen]

That sounds very good, which would mean that there finally is a niche-market with another operator than BCF ? Then it is just interesting which route they do choose for these ships, and whether there is a demand for it, too - which will show up when bookings are done.

Re. Racism, seeing both points of you - I agree on, that saying "they" is always dangerous, it´s after all individuals that do stuff. As well, it´s usually the bad ones that got mentioned, and that get remembered. You don´t talk about the good ones don´t you ? Just more like news-reporter-style "good news is no news".
The other sentiment about the "new population" wanting to chance the existing culture re. Christmas - trees for example, I do more or less blame the state for this. They should choose, which people they do let in the country or not - do language tests etc., and if they see that they don´t fit in just say "no". After all, it´s every state´s right to choose whom to let in, apart from asylum-seekers. Some years ago I was close to emigrate but I did think it very carefully - do I want that ? Do I want to adapt to a completely new culture, learn a new language which is indeed hard to learn too, to keep a part of my culture and as well adopt a part of the other. So much to count in, and if you do plan such, you should learn about the country before, and if you see no, you don´t like that culture stay where you are or choose another country. OK this is what I do, and obviously many immigrants don´t do that. You should see London, Paris, any major European city.

[Scott]

Immigration is a fact of life in BC and always has been, so I'm kind of surprised that people are still upset about it. I went to high school where "white" people were the minority, so I'm used to it. And the culture stuff is not just about immigration either. It's probably mainly due to "political correctness" which comes from the media and government which has over the years become less religious-based, regardless of their skin color. I've heard an East Indian say that white people are weird because we don't want to celebrate our own culture like they do theirs.

Regardless, there are already a large number of immigrants on Vancouver Island and have been basically since Vancouver Island became a colony, so I don't think they're a threat to anyone - don't worry, they're very nice people for the most part (just like any group of people).

As for the PacifiCats, good luck to anyone who wants to use them. They might be nice ships, but they're awful to travel on and I wouldn't go on them, just because they were so crowded and uncomfortable. I doubt any "niche" market would succeed. People won't pay more to save 20 minutes and travel on a pig pen.

[Quinsam]

Actually I think the reason you had to pay more, was because they were gas guzzlers.

[Dane]

welwyn said:

Actually I think the reason you had to pay more, was because they were gas guzzlers.

You didn't pay more for anything?

[QTeen]

I didn't ride them did I?!

[Low Light Mike]

Harry: I'll check my personal dossier of your life's adventures to verify whether you rode the fast-cats or not. I'm sure that I have that information somewhere, probably stored with your medical & dental records.

Also, I'll need your parent's credit card number, as there's a small fee for doing this personal information check.

;D

[Qsaanich]

I Bet harry never rode the cats i have 2 or 3 times

[Doug]

Harry was not even in Canada yet when the fast cats were taken out of service.

[Scott]

ferrymaniac101 said:

I have not known any earthquake to strike BC.

This is very funny.. we only had 23 last week.

www.pgc.nrcan.gc.ca/seismo/recent/bc.50evt.list.html

[Quinsam]

flugelhorn said:

Harry: I'll check my personal dossier of your life's adventures to verify whether you rode the fast-cats or not. I'm sure that I have that information somewhere, probably stored with your medical & dental records.

Also, I'll need your parent's credit card number, as there's a small fee for doing this personal information check.

;D

Doug is right, I arrived in August, 2004, and the only route 2 ferry I ever rode was the Queen of Cowichan.

[Dane]

cascade said:

Interesting side note on the Cat's. They all have cert cover - BUT very limited cover - not full class cover. So if they were going to start using them - which has been talked about in the trade press then they need to get there skates on - as it takes time to been brought up to full class.

I also understand that the BC Government has a "rider" in the sale of the CAT's and that was they were not to be allowed to be used for five years within BC waters. We are getting near to that date.
Factor in the very high cost of fuel and this concept of running the CAT's doesn't look very promising.
They need from all the reports I have seen to be re-engined - and weight taken off her. Like the 10ton bow doors and the extra weight on the stern she carries to off set the bow doors.

She does have trim tanks (water) - but why carry all the extra weight in her tanks - just to balance out the line and get the speed - which they have never been able to do in the first place.

A design that started out with all the right intension but was screwed up by lack of a clear business model and naval designers who didn't know what they were doing. Add into the mix a bunch of politician with greed and high office in there eyes.

I asked a safety guy from BCFS about the safety certs and he was telling me that if the desire existed, Washington could get the ships into the water in sailing condition almost insatantly. Although stored in the water, the ships have been kept well sealed and there is 'check-ups' done on them somewhat regularly.

I didn't realize about the 5 year condition, but it doesn't suprise me at all. Good 'ol Liberals ****ing the people of British Columbia

Getting the ship to speed is an interesting issue. The ships were never in revenue service with their new, more powerful and fuel efficient engines. The real test is yet to come if they go back into service.