Lady Rose - photos & discussion

[Neil]

I don't think anyone would hold the Lady Rose's retirement against the owners. Transport Canada regulations have changed, and also, happily for the owners, public demand for their service means a larger boat is required. In these tough economic times there will be no "Friends of the Lady Rose" society raising big bucks to modernize the ship and keep it operating; not that that sort of thing ever happened on our coast, anyway.

I was more curious as to why the retirement of a car ferry would garner so much more interest than a true link to our past, but I don't suppose I'll find out, since, in catch-22 fashion, a sizeable number of members who might be able to enlighten me don't have a lot of interest in threads such as this.

[Nick]

Speaking as one of those members who have spent a lot of time on the retiring V-class ships, I think Mill Bay has hit the nail on the head. Because of the minimal (relatively speaking) number of people the Lady Rose has carried, and the restrictive nature of her route and schedule, it is difficult for people here to become attached to her.

Most of us are from the larger cities in the region, like Nanaimo, Victoria, the Lower Mainland etc. so we have not been exposed to the lifeline service that a steamship provides. We are attached to the retiring car ferries because they have been a part of our lives. They started and ended vacations, took us to visit family, among other things. In short, we grew up on these boats.

I admit that I have not sailed on the Lady Rose, and now never will. I looked at taking a day trip on her when I was in Bamfield a few years ago, but the schedule never worked out. I feel like I have missed out on experiencing a part of our coastal history, but because better (marginally) roads and vehicles have made it easier and faster to drive to a destination like Bamfield, I never became attached to the ship like people might have 40 years ago.

EDIT:
Something else I just thought of that Mill Bay got right. I read this section just as much as I read the "general BCF" section on this forum, but rarely contribute because I honestly don't have a lot to say. The only coastal steamer I have any kind of in-depth knowledge about is the Princess Kathleen, since I have heard a number of first-hand stories from my neighbour.

I'm woefully ignorant about the marine history of BC. I've been reading a lot, in an attempt to rectify that situation. I have read both of Robert Turner's CP books, as well as several similar books about the coastal towboats. I also recently purchased "Ships of Steel", the story of T.A. McLaren and Allied Shipyards, but have yet to read it.

[Dane]

Jan 28, 2009 10:14:59 GMT -8 Neil said:

I was more curious as to why the retirement of a car ferry would garner so much more interest than a true link to our past, but I don't suppose I'll find out, since, in catch-22 fashion, a sizeable number of members who might be able to enlighten me don't have a lot of interest in threads such as this.

- Geography
- Personal connection
- General awareness
- Accessibility
- "big things" tend to be more popular. Holds true for trains, planes, automobiles (add fast cars for that one too)
- it's hard to be a fan of a "single thing." BC Ferries is an organization that can easily be discussed because it encompasses so much. The Lady Rose operation may be fun to observe, but doesn't open itself up as effectively for meaningful, long term discussion (Not to say it's impossible)
- In the various threads throughout the Board it's easy to see, and I am sure you've noticed, a lot of interest comes from memories of ferries being apart of our lives. Whether it was seeing them frequently, them being used as transportation, or as the first step in a fun vacation. The Lady Rose doesn't fit this bill for many on the forum. An example: I was sad the Steel Electrics were retired. I traveled on all of them but the Illahee during various vacations. I have never traveled on the Rhody. As a result, when she is retired, I won't care. BC Ferries has funded the Lady Roses' operation in the past so at least she was on my radar.

But...

I don't care about the Lady Rose in so far as her operation because the interest simply doesn't exist. I don't care about inland ferries either. I have been on both Inland Ferries and the Lady Rose.

The tone of the first message baffles me a bit - it seems to criticize those that don't generalize an interest in some ferries to all ferries.

... I have spent hours researching the Dogwood Princess and Dogwood Princess II, and just a week ago spent 45 minutes on the phone with the man that sold of them to BC Ferries to learn even more! No cars on those boats!

[Low Light Mike]

Jan 28, 2009 10:14:59 GMT -8 Neil said:

I was more curious as to why the retirement of a car ferry would garner so much more interest than a true link to our past, but I don't suppose I'll find out, since, in catch-22 fashion, a sizeable number of members who might be able to enlighten me don't have a lot of interest in threads such as this.

My quick response (more detailed to come in a few days when I have more time) is that easier access to travel on the ferry ship results in more apparent interest in a ferry's retirement.

It's much easier and more common for boat-nerds to take a ferry a few times to enjoy "one last ride" before it is retired. But it takes more effort to go out of our normal way and take one last trip on a coaster like the 'Rose.

I've already expressed my own regret at not making the effort to ride the Lady Rose, given all the clues of her impending retirement that were available to me and that I ignored.

Again, I think there is real interest in the coastal steamers & motor-coasters, it's just that it seems to be a niche thing within the overall realm of ship-fandom.

[Neil]

Jan 28, 2009 11:04:10 GMT -8 Low Light Mike said:

Again, I think there is real interest in the coastal steamers & motor-coasters, it's just that it seems to be a niche thing within the overall realm of ship-fandom.

It would be interesting to have the Queen of Vancouver and the Lady Rose side by side, and offer the general public 'final tours'. You could go on one, but not the other. The Queen of Vancouver might win out, but I suspect the interest in the 'Rose would be vastly disproportionate to both her size, and to the number of people who have sailed on either boat in their histories. The figures for forum members would be somewhat different.

Jan 28, 2009 10:47:07 GMT -8 Dane said:

The tone of the first message baffles me a bit - it seems to criticize those that don't generalize an interest in some ferries to all ferries.

Aw, come on, Dane, you're not baffled; you just disagree.

I suppose the tone was somewhat critical. I have my beliefs about what is historical, and what vessels are more significant to our coast, and other people have theirs. I was just reflecting on the barrage of trips, photos, regrets and even tears over the retirement of the Vs, and wondering why people on the forum found this to be so much more significant than the loss of another vessel with a much longer history; a vessel which truly is the last of it's line.

Still, I think my point was made as much from curiosity as criticism. Many forum trips have been made which involve as much or more travel and money as a day trip to Bamfield on the Lady Rose. People get worked up over one retirement and not over another that represents a genuine break with our past. Ferry fans are not necessarily ship fans- and that's fine- but I'm intrigued by how people make the distinction.

[Low Light Mike]

Jan 28, 2009 12:34:26 GMT -8 Neil said:

Ferry fans are not necessarily ship fans- and that's fine- but I'm intrigued by how people make the distinction.

For me, I was a ferry fan first. Since then, my interests have grown to include other west coast ships, such as the Union Steamships and the BCCSS ships. A lot of that growth has been the result of me being exposed to the Union Steamship & BCCSS photos and posts here on this forum. Books by authors such as Tom Henry and Robert Turner solidified that new interest in me.

There are still ships that I'm not yet interested in: CP's Empresses, tug boats, modern freighters, and small pleasure boats. For some of these, my lack of interest is because I haven't yet done any study. But I do intend to eventually buy Robert Turner's book on the CP Empresses, and so I have some interest germinating.

Conclusion: exposure begets curiosity. Curiosity begets Study. Study begets hobby-interest.

[WettCoast]

I have a few pics from the two trips that I have taken on the Lady Rose.

The first two were taken in Bamfield in May 1979. I had just finished back packing the West Coast Trail (WCT). We took the LR to Pt Alberni and then bussed it to Nanaimo & Victoria. The second picture is a close up from the first.





The third pic was taken 8 years later in June 1987. Again this was taken at Bamfield following a WCT hike. You will note that she is sporting a changed paint scheme. No, the flag looks up-side-down, but it isn't.



The last photo is of me (centre) and my two fellow hikers 'playing tourist' on board the LR while heading east up Alberni Inlet.



Photos except last one by JST ©

[Kam]

Here she is last year:

[Low Light Mike]

Jan 29, 2009 13:55:34 GMT -8 Kam said:

Here she is last year:

This ship crossed the Atlantic ! wow. Think about that for a moment....

[Starsteward]

Add me to the list of folks who kept putting off doing a trip on that interesting little ship.
It was not only her unique features that made her interesting, but she travelled some of the most beautiful parts of our coast, as well as some of the most dangerous.
Indeed, it would be great to see her preserved in some form or another but with the economics of the world being what they are at present, her future would seem to be very uncertain.

[Scott]

It's too bad she likely won't sail again... but she lasted longer than any BC Ferry;) I was fortunate to sail on her one way from Ucluelet about 7 or 8 years ago. Apart from her historical importance, there wasn't anything particularly spectacular about her as far as accommodations go. Here are a couple shots from Ucluelet:





On January 2nd of this year my wife and I took a little drive to Port Alberni for lunch and a drive around town:) Got a few pics of the Princess Jaqueline from the Quay and then wandered by the Lady Rose. Got a few pics of her tied up at the dock. There wasn't anyone around so I wasn't able to ask anyone about her future. Here are a few pics I took.





This one I edited to highlight the ship from all the background.






Yes, she did cross the Atlantic. No satellite tracking back then:) No websites documenting her voyage:) "We're getting a new ship. It'll get here in a few months... sometime... hopefully."

[Scott]

From "Whistle up the Inlet" (pg.130)

"She had an adventurous crossing to the Pacific, after leaving Glasgow on May 7, 1937 under Captain W.E. Smailes, who had a crew of nine. She ran into foul weather going south to Las Palmas and again off the coast of South America; and, even after traversing the Panama Canal, Captain Smailes had to fight seven days of storms and mountainous seas before rounding Cape Flattery on July 10 and entering Vancouver harbour the next day. She was quickly put into summer service but, while very manoeuverable, her limitations as a utility vessel were obvious, and her size precluded her employment in relief."

She was requisitioned for troop transport during World War II... from 1942 to 1946

[Dane]

The Lady Rose didn't support BC ship building??? And people still like it? What's going on

[Low Light Mike]

Here are some Lady Rose pictures, taken Feb.7, 2009. They are taken from the dock at Port Alberni, and from the water on the MV Frances Barkley. I've tried to include enough variety in these posted pics to capture her from different angles and to give a record of the various sections of the ship's exterior.

[Deleted]

Excellent thread..Travelled on the Rose many times when she was a Union ship to Bowen Island and on to Squamish to meet the train. Been on most of the old Union, CNR and CPR coastal ships all up and down the coast. Yep..I'm old. The mid-night ships, Princess Joan or Elizabeth to Vancouver or Victoria launched many a Honeymoon. The loss of subsidies, strikes and ships not meeting the increased use of the automobile marked the end of this era. Now we have the very efficient ships of BC Ferries perhaps not as elegant as the old ships but much better suited for their intended use. I hope Lady Rose ends up as a museum and nor razor blades. She's such a beautiful little ship.

[BreannaF]

A couple of observations:

Yes, it is a shame that our history is leaving us, and we should try to see as much of it as possible before it goes away completely. There is an argument here for perhaps compiling a list of which vessels of interest are still out there in service and their significance.

Frankly, it is a lot easier to go to the BCF or WSF websites (as the case may be) and get a list of current vessels. It takes a bit more effort to take a trip up and down the coast on a map and document just what is left out there. Or perhaps what is recently departed.

The Internet itself tends to be an incredibly complete chronicle of events and items of significance since about 1995 or so, simply because that is the time frame that it has existed as a medium. Most of the information on our history is contained in older, more archaic media, such as bound volumes made of chopped and formed trees found in building shrines known as libraries. It's much less convenient than opening your laptop and fondling a mouse, but that was the way it was done back in the day, so that is where most of the information is.

Also, there is a certain demographic who are interested in all things historical. I was born the same year as the Queen of Tsawwassen. A quick survey of the "West Coast Steamships" thread tells me that most of the recent contributors to that thread are around that age or older (and wiser? ). I'm thinking that there is a greater interest in "things historical" as we ourselves become more historical. (As an example, there are things that qualify as "history" now that were "current events" back when I was earning that minor in History 25 years ago.)

Judging from the picture at the head of the forum this month, a significant number of the participants in outings consider the Queen of Tsawwassen to be a significant example of a historic ship. Yes, there are quite a few significant exceptions, but the typical forum member here is really quite young, to the extent that a discussion of a Union Steamship is done at the same level as a discussion of the HMS Resolution or the HMS Discovery.

That being said, I think it would be interesting to learn more about our historical ferries and steamers, and visit any that are remaining somewhere. And I too have been meaning to make that hike on the West Coast of Vancouver Island for 30 years now, but have never got around to it. So, whether it be the hike or the trip on the ship, do it before it's gone. Or before there's a shopping mall in Ucluelet.

[rt1commuter]

I remember my one and only trip on the Lady Rose. We'd just come off of the West Coast Trail and were WET. The boat was such a relief. It was such a cool experience to walk across a gangplank onto this old, classic vessel. The departure from Bamfield was fantastic, and the scenery was excellent. What a nice little boat!

Does anyone remember the Burgers in the Cafeteria? They were fantastic! I wouldn't mind taking another trip on the Francis Barkley one of these days....

[PCL Driver]

My one and only trip on the Lady Rose was with the Spectrum Community School band in 1978. We were a small band, only about 20 members, and we performed a concert in Bamfield at the church. We were late getting to Bamfield due to us having to stop and help a sinking houseboat. We then performed a 'quick' concert, then had to run back down to the wharf for the return trip. ;D

On the way back, we also had a 'non scheduled' concert at the back of the ship.

[Low Light Mike]

It's interesting to read that the Lady Rose was considered inadequate for many runs, upon entering Union Steamship service. Rob Morris' book points out her lack of cargo capacity as a problem.

And that same size problem made her uneconomical to run in Barkley Sound in recent years. The MV Frances Barkley carries twice the number of passengers, and twice the amount of cargo (or something close to that).

And yet she somehow became the last surviving member from that old company. Maybe that lack of versatility helped her to outlive her sisters, somehow.

It would be like Ringo Starr ending up as the last surviving Beatle.

But an important link to history, nonetheless.

[Low Light Mike]

Neil commented on the beat-up look to the ship hulls.

Here is a series of progressive close-ups of the Lady Rose's bow:

[Low Light Mike]

This is the closest thing I have to a picture of the ship's wheel of the Lady Rose:

Look through the door's window...

[Low Light Mike]

An article from www.westcoaster.ca

www.westcoaster.ca/modules/AMS/article.php?storyid=6412

Plenty Of Plans For Lady Rose

Published Date: 2009/3/25 17:30:
By Westcoaster.ca Staff

PORT ALBERNI — Ideas on ways to save the Lady Rose were almost limitless at a meeting Tuesday night at Gyro Centre.

Unfortunately, ways to fund ideas were in short supply.

City of Port Alberni economic development manager Pat Deakin said the city has no funds to save the historic ship, and "no interest in becoming the owner."

More than 40 people gathered to discuss ways of keeping the 72-year-old Lady Rose in Port Alberni, after her six-decades of serving Barkley Sound communities.

Last year, new Transport Canada guidelines meant passenger vessels had to be equipped with multiple escape routes from lower decks and engine rooms.

Owner Mike Surrell estimated the Lady Rose would require $2 million of work over five years to meet the new passenger safety guidelines.

Surrell said the expense didn't make sense for his business, and offered the ship to the city for $80,000 in cash plus a $40,000 tax credit.

The M.V. Lady Rose was built in Scotland in 1937, becoming the first diesel-powered single-propeller ship to cross the Atlantic Ocean on her route to the West Coast.

During the summer, the ship was often at full capacity carrying 100 passengers from Port Alberni to Bamfield, Ucluelet, and the Broken Islands, while also carrying 25 tonnes of cargo for fish farms, logging operations, and small communities along the way.Meeting attendees discussed bringing the ship onto land in whole or in part and constructing a tourist attraction at either the Harbour or Victoria Quay areas, but without city funding, plans fell flat.

Unless a community solution can be found, Surrell will try to sell the 105-foot vessel privately.

[Low Light Mike]

A good, informative article in local paper today about the Lady Rose:

www2.canada.com/nanaimodailynews/news/story.html?id=0ae6bb9c-5ea8-4cb1-8c22-9646e2f46e64

---------

Future looks bleak for 71-year-old Lady Rose
Great support for vessel, but lack of funds an issue

Shayne Morrow
Alberni Valley Times
Thursday, March 26, 2009

A public meeting to determine the fate of the Lady Rose proved to be a dash of cold water for those seeking to preserve the beloved little ship.

City economic development manager Patrick Deakin organized the event to gauge public opinion on whether the city should become involved in any project - either to preserve the 71-year-old vessel as a floating or static attraction.

"I can't see the city investing any funds in this - I was hoping the public would step forward to support it," Deakin said at the onset.

When all was said and done, however, Deakin said the support simply wasn't there.

"There were people who volunteered to take on various roles in protecting the Lady Rose, but there was nobody who stepped up to take the lead," Deakin said Wednesday. "In my experience, if there is no champion, the project will not go ahead."

What ensued during the meeting itself was a multitude of strong arguments against taking on a preservation project, beginning with the current owner's requirement for $80,000 in cash to purchase the ship. But the strongest case may have been offered by former Lady Rose skipper Joe Monrufet, whose father brought the vessel to the Alberni Inlet in 1960.

"When people write about the Lady Rose, what they say they care about is seeing a working ship," Monrufet said. "They come to see a ship that does the job, and if it's not doing the job, the interest won't be there."

Monrufet's suggestion, backed up by former owner Roland Smith, countered arguments for hauling the ship onto land as a permanent display. Smith said that, since the Frances Barkley took over the regular Alberni Inlet service, the culture and importance of the Lady Rose image has diminished.

"There are people who are genuinely upset that they're not going on the Lady Rose - but it's less and less every year," he said. "Out in Barkley Sound, their concern is 'Boat Day.'"

Much discussion ensued on the technical difficulties of preserving the ship - even on land. Retired welder Larry Hardy noted that corrosion continues even after a ship is taken out of the water.

"I worked on her in the 1970s, and even then, you could have put a trip hammer through any part of her hull - and that was 30 years ago," Hardy said.

Retired shipwright Muos DeLange echoed the thought.

"Even as a souvenir, you have to figure out a way to keep it," he said. "I'd like to see her saved, but I'm against spending any public money."

Deakin advised that there were no firm cost estimates available on the various options of preparing the ship for display, or on the annual cost of maintaining her.

"As you know, the city has been going through the budget over the last two and a half months, and $80,000 is a huge sum," he said.

Port Alberni Maritime Heritage Society president Ken Hutcheson noted that the ship has historical significance outside the Alberni Inlet - especially as the last surviving vessel of the Union Steamship Company, which once plied the waters of the B.C. Coast. Hutcheson said that, according to his contacts in the Vancouver Maritime Heritage Society and other marine heritage organizations, that would be one avenue to pursue for support.

"But it's a tough business, saving old ships," Hutcheson said, suggesting that the city may have to settle for a portion of the ship, such as the wheelhouse. "The message I get is that it would be hard to raise money."

Volunteers will continue to pursue avenues of funding for the project, including seeking federal/provincial infrastructure money. Inquiries will be made to the Vancouver Maritime Museum to determine attendance figures (and revenue) for the historic RCMP ship, the St. Roch, which has been on static display since the 1970s.

© Alberni Valley Times 2009

[Low Light Mike]

Jan 27, 2009 19:58:02 GMT -8 Neil said:

Not that this will interest too many on this forum- the Lady Rose was not a car ferry.

.......and a few months later, she appears as our forum flagship banner for the month.

[WettCoast]

Listen up Fluge...

As a moderator I would like you to move this here thread out of the 'retired' vessels section to some where more appropriate (BC 'ferries', perhaps), and you should start planning a trip.

www.ladyrosemarine.com/rates.html

According to my Mom, there was an add in today's TC newspaper re the Lady Rose. I told her that the Lady Rose was retired, and then I checked.