Neil
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Posts: 7,272
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Post by Neil on Sept 6, 2017 21:22:22 GMT -8
It appears management at BC Ferries must fear political repercussions if they had the modification work for the Northern Sea Wolf accomplished in Poland, or Romania. After all, they've had new builds and now mod work in Poland, and more new builds constructed in Romania. Actions tell all, BCF are all about saving money by using offshore yards. So perhaps there was political pressure applied to BCF mgmt to have the work on the Northern Sea Wolf performed locally. For me I'm pleased to see B.C. workers employed on this ferry project. I really doubt that politics or corporate image had anything to do with it. The former Aqua Spirit was purchased under the Liberal regime, and that government never indicated through their deeds that building or refitting in BC meant much. I suspect it was simply a matter of this being a small vessel, and that space was available in BC for the work, at a price they could live with.
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Post by WettCoast on Sept 6, 2017 21:31:37 GMT -8
Even after taking into account the first nations' legend of the sea wolf? In what way does this little boat 'connect' with that or any other FN legend?
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Neil
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Posts: 7,272
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Post by Neil on Sept 6, 2017 21:41:18 GMT -8
Even after taking into account the first nations' legend of the sea wolf? In what way does this little boat 'connect' with that or any other FN legend? The name was apparently arrived at after some sort of consultation process with central coast First Nations' representatives. I believe there's going to be a reference and explanation plaque onboard. I'm very skeptical about the lip service often paid to First Nations' culture, so I share your reservations, although I think they've done far worse with some of the other names in recent years.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 7, 2017 7:05:40 GMT -8
I love the name, and I think that it's one of the better names in the post-2003 era.
(I've qualified this to say that "I think," signifying that it's just my viewpoint, and not absolute truth)
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Post by WettCoast on Sept 7, 2017 8:01:03 GMT -8
Mr Horn, as you probably know, I have been out in the back woods of the Canadian Rockies for a couple of weeks. I've only had a very limited amount of 'internet time' so I have missed a lot of stuff until now.
I first became aware of this name choice on Monday (Sept. 4) while heading toward home on the Yellowhead Highway (with my wife driving). Cell reception is spotty on the Yellowhead, but there, on my little phone screen, I read 'Northern Sea Wolf' and I almost ejected coffee out through my nostrils. My wife enquired as to what was so funny and I told her. She replied simply 'Oh dear!'
I have become used to and accepting of the names chosen for our ferries, good & bad. This one is "I think" definitely in the bad category, but no doubt I will get used to it. Obviously, my opinion is in the minority here on the WCFF.
PS: Can I group the three Salish vessels and this NSW together as BC Ferries new "Animal Class vessels"?
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Post by mybidness459 on Sept 7, 2017 9:53:25 GMT -8
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John H
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Admin Emeritus
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Post by John H on Sept 7, 2017 14:27:27 GMT -8
I'm assuming the journey to BC will coincide with the eastward journey of the Spirit of British Columbia. I wonder if/where they will pass each other? I would be neat if it was the Panama Canal, but if the Northern Sea Wolf is still in Greece, I doubt that will be happening. Probably will be in the mid-Atlantic... in the middle of hurricane season.
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Post by Mike C on Sept 7, 2017 14:37:30 GMT -8
Mr Horn, as you probably know, I have been out in the back woods of the Canadian Rockies for a couple of weeks. I've only had a very limited amount of 'internet time' so I have missed a lot of stuff until now. I first became aware of this name choice on Monday (Sept. 4) while heading toward home on the Yellowhead Highway (with my wife driving). Cell reception is spotty on the Yellowhead, but there, on my little phone screen, I read 'Northern Sea Wolf' and I almost ejected coffee out through my nostrils. My wife enquired as to what was so funny and I told her. She replied simply 'Oh dear!' I have become used to and accepting of the names chosen for our ferries, good & bad. This one is "I think" definitely in the bad category, but no doubt I will get used to it. Obviously, my opinion is in the minority here on the WCFF. PS: Can I group the three Salish vessels and this NSW together as BC Ferries new "Animal Class vessels"? I have to say that this is one of the more divisive names we've had yet! We don't often see a new name and have that split down the middle. Jim, I have to say that I am with you on this one - I think if a name recognises our indigenous populations, it should speak for itself, rather than require an explanation. Something I really liked about the Salish class vessels was that I felt the names connected with our coastal First Nations and that Orca, Eagle, and Raven were easily recognisable symbols of that culture; furthermore, had artwork applied that even further spoke to that symbolism. I don't think the same effort was made with this name. All of that said I hope that this isn't just another piece of tokenism, and as time goes on we can further connect to that culture, and this name can be a productive stepping stone for doing so - and perhaps I just don't see it yet. But it's also pretty difficult to shake the name "Mr. Shoppy 1."
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 7, 2017 15:07:42 GMT -8
Jim, I have to say that I am with you on this one - I think if a name recognises our indigenous populations, it should speak for itself, rather than require an explanation. Something I really liked about the Salish class vessels was that I felt the names connected with our coastal First Nations and that Orca, Eagle, and Raven were easily recognisable symbols of that culture; furthermore, had artwork applied that even further spoke to that symbolism. I don't think the same effort was made with this name. I agree that "Sea Wolf" is tougher for the general population to place as an Indiginous cultural item, compared with the much more mainstream Orca, Eagle, Raven. As with most cultural things, there are widely understood items and then there are the less understood items. "Northern Bukwus" would be a very obscure item for a ship name. Bukwus is the Kwakiutl name for "wild man of the woods" aka Sasquatch. Through friends and my own reading, I've been exposed to various First Nations stories and culture items, and so for me it was an easier understanding of the relevance of "Sea Wolf."
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,272
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Post by Neil on Sept 7, 2017 17:50:49 GMT -8
Mr Horn, as you probably know, I have been out in the back woods of the Canadian Rockies for a couple of weeks. I've only had a very limited amount of 'internet time' so I have missed a lot of stuff until now. I first became aware of this name choice on Monday (Sept. 4) while heading toward home on the Yellowhead Highway (with my wife driving). Cell reception is spotty on the Yellowhead, but there, on my little phone screen, I read 'Northern Sea Wolf' and I almost ejected coffee out through my nostrils. My wife enquired as to what was so funny and I told her. She replied simply 'Oh dear!' I have become used to and accepting of the names chosen for our ferries, good & bad. This one is "I think" definitely in the bad category, but no doubt I will get used to it. Obviously, my opinion is in the minority here on the WCFF. PS: Can I group the three Salish vessels and this NSW together as BC Ferries new "Animal Class vessels"? I have to say that this is one of the more divisive names we've had yet! We don't often see a new name and have that split down the middle. Jim, I have to say that I am with you on this one - I think if a name recognises our indigenous populations, it should speak for itself, rather than require an explanation. Something I really liked about the Salish class vessels was that I felt the names connected with our coastal First Nations and that Orca, Eagle, and Raven were easily recognisable symbols of that culture; furthermore, had artwork applied that even further spoke to that symbolism. I don't think the same effort was made with this name. All of that said I hope that this isn't just another piece of tokenism, and as time goes on we can further connect to that culture, and this name can be a productive stepping stone for doing so - and perhaps I just don't see it yet. But it's also pretty difficult to shake the name "Mr. Shoppy 1." I really disagree that a reference to First Nations culture should only be made if it's instantly decipherable to non-aboriginals. I would hope that most people have a level of curiosity about native culture that allows them to accept things less obvious than orcas, ravens, and eagles. In any event, I think anyone travelling on this vessel will be able to see the story, and it was even explained in the press blurb. But, of course it's tokenism. It's a lot easier to give boats names than it is to sign over mineral rights or territory that we don't want to part with... but that's a whole other argument that I don't mean to stir up here.
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Post by ragingpotatoyt on Sept 21, 2017 16:48:19 GMT -8
I have to say that this is one of the more divisive names we've had yet! We don't often see a new name and have that split down the middle. Jim, I have to say that I am with you on this one - I think if a name recognises our indigenous populations, it should speak for itself, rather than require an explanation. Something I really liked about the Salish class vessels was that I felt the names connected with our coastal First Nations and that Orca, Eagle, and Raven were easily recognisable symbols of that culture; furthermore, had artwork applied that even further spoke to that symbolism. I don't think the same effort was made with this name. All of that said I hope that this isn't just another piece of tokenism, and as time goes on we can further connect to that culture, and this name can be a productive stepping stone for doing so - and perhaps I just don't see it yet. But it's also pretty difficult to shake the name "Mr. Shoppy 1." I really disagree that a reference to First Nations culture should only be made if it's instantly decipherable to non-aboriginals. I would hope that most people have a level of curiosity about native culture that allows them to accept things less obvious than orcas, ravens, and eagles. In any event, I think anyone travelling on this vessel will be able to see the story, and it was even explained in the press blurb. But, of course it's tokenism. It's a lot easier to give boats names than it is to sign over mineral rights or territory that we don't want to part with... but that's a whole other argument that I don't mean to stir up here. Maybe it was referring to one of the many other indigenous peoples in British Columbia
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Post by ragingpotatoyt on Sept 21, 2017 16:50:30 GMT -8
I personally think the North Sea Wolf is not the right vessel for the job as it’s not a ro/ro instead a RO/T/RO
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Post by yvr on Sept 26, 2017 19:25:28 GMT -8
Is anyone else wondering why the No. Sea Wolf has been sitting at anchor for almost a month? Is it contract issues, probably not as the Greeks would still be utilizing it, so title must certainly be in BC Ferries name. Or are they waiting for the Hurricane season to finish, or the crew from the Spirit of B.C. to bring it back - in fact isn't there a couple of B.C. Ferries personnel aboard the Spirit's Poland sailing? Maybe it's the Spirit's crew members they're waiting for. Regardless it's sitting there rusting away, probably with a care taker crew, add in insurance, and fuel for the caretakers (lights - ventilation), as well as accumulating anchorage fees - amazing!
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,272
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Post by Neil on Sept 26, 2017 20:40:57 GMT -8
Is anyone else wondering why the No. Sea Wolf has been sitting at anchor for almost a month? Is it contract issues, probably not as the Greeks would still be utilizing it, so title must certainly be in BC Ferries name. Or are they waiting for the Hurricane season to finish, or the crew from the Spirit of B.C. to bring it back - in fact isn't there a couple of B.C. Ferries personnel aboard the Spirit's Poland sailing? Maybe it's the Spirit's crew members they're waiting for. Regardless it's sitting there rusting away, probably with a care taker crew, add in insurance, and fuel for the caretakers (lights - ventilation), as well as accumulating anchorage fees - amazing! Amazing? I don't think so. We've been told it's going to be here "this fall", which can mean any time before December 20th. We're not even into October, so they may be on schedule for delivery. If it still hasn't moved by the end of next month, then it might be a story.
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tak22
Chief Steward
Posts: 108
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Post by tak22 on Sept 27, 2017 9:33:06 GMT -8
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Post by yvr on Sept 28, 2017 21:11:50 GMT -8
I'm pleased we've flushed out an answer as to when the No. Sea Wolf will depart Greece. The sooner it's over here for her mods, the sooner work can begin. Over the past few years it seems local yards have a problem of time lines sliding to the right. An earlier arrival will give more completion time before her scheduled sailings in 2018.
Does anyone know, who is producing the modification drawings, is that work subcontracted out, or does BCF have an in house engineering /drawings dept. producing the documents. With the ferry in Greece and draftsmen / engineering folks here in B.C. they will be using the original drawings as their basis for the mods. Most likely those engineers would like to see the ship. Because I can well imagine there are numerous deviations from the original drawings, and those will impact the work planned.
We can only hope there's lots of cutting torch work hacking out windows. If balance, trim, and stability allow, lets also have the engineers design a greenhouse for the top deck.
Now has anyone been able to find information pertaining to the Panagiotakis Bros. Shipyard where this ferry was built?
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tak22
Chief Steward
Posts: 108
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Post by tak22 on Oct 7, 2017 8:10:22 GMT -8
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Post by Dane on Oct 8, 2017 19:47:56 GMT -8
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Post by mirrlmak on Oct 8, 2017 21:56:44 GMT -8
Thanks for the link! Is that fare estimate correct? 199$ per foot passenger?
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John H
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Post by John H on Oct 9, 2017 7:58:01 GMT -8
Thanks for the link! Is that fare estimate correct? 199$ per foot passenger? That's just the current fare for the trip on board the NIMPKISH during the "regular fare" season. Wouldn't be surprised if the price goes up.
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Post by mybidness459 on Oct 9, 2017 11:16:02 GMT -8
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Post by yvr on Oct 9, 2017 20:26:22 GMT -8
Management at BC Ferries have done it again. From their very own news releases we believed that the No. Sea Wolf would have her modification work performed here in British Columbia. That was until one of our diligent members finds photograph's of the ship in a Greek dry dock. Checking previous posts it appears she was in the dock September 5th, and another member noted she moved around on October 6th, so it appears entirely possible that she's been on the blocks for a month. Like I said in previous posts they love those low cost yards in Poland, Romania, and yes Greece once again. So this little ferry had a livery change, but was else was accomplished that couldn't have been performed by British Columbian's?
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,272
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Post by Neil on Oct 9, 2017 20:51:26 GMT -8
Management at BC Ferries have done it again. From their very own news releases we believed that the No. Sea Wolf would have her modification work performed here in British Columbia. That was until one of our diligent members finds photograph's of the ship in a Greek dry dock. Checking previous posts it appears she was in the dock September 5th, and another member noted she moved around on October 6th, so it appears entirely possible that she's been on the blocks for a month. Like I said in previous posts they love those low cost yards in Poland, Romania, and yes Greece once again. So this little ferry had a livery change, but was else was accomplished that couldn't have been performed by British Columbian's? Maybe nothing. As cynical as I am about the lack of work done in BC in recent times, let's wait until we see what the contract here actually involves before we jump to conclusions.
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Post by mybidness459 on Oct 10, 2017 12:00:49 GMT -8
I do not know about you but If I just purchased a new boat for myself, I would like to Drydock it to make sure it is in good shape before making the Atlantic crossing. And while in Drydock why not repaint it in my own colours to promote my business.
After all BC Ferries would want to promote their brand not NEL. Think of the how many people do see the vessel when comming home.
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Nick
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Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,079
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Post by Nick on Oct 10, 2017 12:16:14 GMT -8
Management at BC Ferries have done it again. From their very own news releases we believed that the No. Sea Wolf would have her modification work performed here in British Columbia. That was until one of our diligent members finds photograph's of the ship in a Greek dry dock. Checking previous posts it appears she was in the dock September 5th, and another member noted she moved around on October 6th, so it appears entirely possible that she's been on the blocks for a month. Like I said in previous posts they love those low cost yards in Poland, Romania, and yes Greece once again. So this little ferry had a livery change, but was else was accomplished that couldn't have been performed by British Columbian's? When transferring ownership of a ship, it's often necessary to do a hull survey for insurance and registration purposes. Even if the registration is in a Flag of Convenience country, classification society rules will require some form of inspection before issuing a certificate. The refit BCF has planned for the NSW is mostly interior/cosmetic upgrades, which can be done with the vessel floating. Also, even if the ship will be drydocked again in Canada, our west coast weather is not very conducive to applying paint in the winter. The vessel has to be hoarded in plastic and the interior heated to get the humidity and temperature right for the coatings to cure properly. It can be done, but it's expensive. Probably much cheaper to have that work done in a warmer climate.
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