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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 25, 2008 20:21:34 GMT -8
Flugel, you mean the Republican convention in a few weeks? Democrats are doing it this week. I may have got my cities mixed up, but I did mean the Democrat convention. That party has a history of flirty presidents...and candidates. But then they also had Jerry Brown.
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Post by DENelson83 on Aug 25, 2008 20:24:46 GMT -8
Back to the CC... Did the lack of sound simply mean her engines were not running?
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Post by Ferryman on Aug 25, 2008 20:56:53 GMT -8
The CC is the only Coastal that had her funnel pipes taken off for mufflers to be installed. Once the mufflers were in place, the pipes were re-installed. Now you won't hear that deep engine sound off in the distance anymore . Well actually this is a good thing, the feedback from the funnel in the solarium lounges is quite intense on the ears. The other two Coastals will likely have this done when they have their first refits. I remember this being quietly mentioned in one of our news threads a few weeks back. But come to think of it, there's a news article about this from today. Here it is, fresh off the press. www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=3273af71-15bf-4b6c-9dcf-79a79f7c3be9Ahh, they're already changing them and some of them aren't even a year old yet......
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Aug 25, 2008 21:02:21 GMT -8
ok, time for skool: Why was a lack of noise an indication of which sister she is? Are you referring to the helicopter-sound? If so, was the recent dry-dock work fixing that sound? =============== ps: Isn't Donella very pervasive these days? She's everywhere. I hear that she'll be in Denver for the Democratic Convention later this week (JFK won't be there, but Bubba will be....). She may also be doing a boat trip with former US Senator Garry Hart. And wasn't she just recently a special-guest of the Chinese Gov't at the Beijing Olympics? Next week she's on Letterman, and after that she will be guesting on The View. Then there's the CBC TV movie "Degrassi: the ferry fan generation". The CC recently had mufflers added while at Departure Bay to reduce the noise of her exhaust system. Her propeller noise also seems reduced, I assume due to her recent time spent at Esquimalt...
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Kam
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Post by Kam on Aug 25, 2008 21:20:02 GMT -8
Well, I believe it. I’m interested to see what the coastal's sound like after refit. I live in departure bay a little less than 2km directly from the terminal and I know when one of the coastal’s are leaving or arriving every time. The definitely have a distinct rumble to them. On a quiet evening I can even hear that slapping sound the propellers make.
The sound doesn’t bother me at all, but I’m not nearly as close as others to the water.
That gives me an idea.. We have some fairly high quality audio recorders at work. Me think's I’ll go down to departure bay and make some recordings of C/R as she is now and compare them to the C/C or C/R after refit this winter.
A look at a spectrograph breakdown will tell what frequencies are problematic.
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ProudCanuck
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Post by ProudCanuck on Aug 26, 2008 11:48:43 GMT -8
The CC is the only Coastal that had her funnel pipes taken off for mufflers to be installed. Once the mufflers were in place, the pipes were re-installed. Now you won't hear that deep engine sound off in the distance anymore . Well actually this is a good thing, the feedback from the funnel in the solarium lounges is quite intense on the ears. The other two Coastals will likely have this done when they have their first refits. I remember this being quietly mentioned in one of our news threads a few weeks back. But come to think of it, there's a news article about this from today. Here it is, fresh off the press. www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=3273af71-15bf-4b6c-9dcf-79a79f7c3be9Ahh, they're already changing them and some of them aren't even a year old yet...... I'm surprised that we have not heard fom the people in Horseshoe Bay regarding this issue.
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Post by johnnytindale on Aug 26, 2008 16:56:14 GMT -8
The CC is the only Coastal that had her funnel pipes taken off for mufflers to be installed. Once the mufflers were in place, the pipes were re-installed. Now you won't hear that deep engine sound off in the distance anymore . Well actually this is a good thing, the feedback from the funnel in the solarium lounges is quite intense on the ears. The other two Coastals will likely have this done when they have their first refits. I remember this being quietly mentioned in one of our news threads a few weeks back. But come to think of it, there's a news article about this from today. Here it is, fresh off the press. www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=3273af71-15bf-4b6c-9dcf-79a79f7c3be9Ahh, they're already changing them and some of them aren't even a year old yet...... I'm surprised that we have not heard fom the people in Horseshoe Bay regarding this issue. Why you wouldn't be referring to the NIMBY capital of the world by any chance would you? ;D Careful, don't poke the bear!
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Post by Retrovision on Aug 26, 2008 18:33:54 GMT -8
Those shots are beautiful. I bet Retro will like seeing two Super C's at his favourite terminal simultaneously. Although I'm more sad to see the Vs go and none kept even as a spare pending inevitable bugs with the new ships, it is quite the consolation prize to have two Coastals operating to my next door and favourite terminal. Great shots btw, Scott. I especially like the one where she dwarfs the tiny Bowen Queen. I'm surprised that we have not heard fom the people in Horseshoe Bay regarding this issue. Why you wouldn't be referring to the NIMBY capital of the world by any chance would you? ;D Careful, don't poke the bear! Tsawwassenites, especially the English Bluff dwellers (those on the nearby shore and cliffside), come a close second methinks. These are the same people who complained to the municipality that the flashing lights on top of the cranes all the way over at Deltaport (Roberts Bank), when they were new, were "blinding" them. I'm surprised that we haven't heard much from them.
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Aug 27, 2008 5:40:04 GMT -8
The CC is the only Coastal that had her funnel pipes taken off for mufflers to be installed. Once the mufflers were in place, the pipes were re-installed. Now you won't hear that deep engine sound off in the distance anymore . Well actually this is a good thing, the feedback from the funnel in the solarium lounges is quite intense on the ears. The other two Coastals will likely have this done when they have their first refits. I remember this being quietly mentioned in one of our news threads a few weeks back. But come to think of it, there's a news article about this from today. Here it is, fresh off the press. www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=3273af71-15bf-4b6c-9dcf-79a79f7c3be9Ahh, they're already changing them and some of them aren't even a year old yet...... Following up with the CBC version: www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/08/26/bc-ferries-shaking-nanaimo-homes.html
Residents living next to the BC Ferries terminal in Nanaimo say the low-frequency vibrations emitted by the company's new, supersize ferries are threatening their homes. Bob Wiekenkamp, a retired engineer who lives about 60 metres from the terminal, said when the new Coastal Renaissance ferry arrived last fall at the Departure Bay terminal, it felt like an earthquake rattled his home. "The whole house was shaking and rattling," Wiekenkamp told CBC News on Tuesday. "The fixtures on the walls were banging around. It was really a very major event as far as I was concerned." Wiekenkamp has lived in his house perched on an embankment overlooking the terminal for 15 years and says it was a peaceful life until recently because the older, smaller vessels did not cause his home to shake. But now that the new, larger ferries are making several trips a day out of the terminal, he and his neighbours are worried about the future of their homes. "My concern is what happens with the low-frequency component of the emission," said Wiekenkamp. "It's the stability of the bank, our foundation. The amount of shaking that's happening is going to affect the structure somewhere." Some neighbours have found cracks in retaining walls; others discovered broken windows, he said. Ferry corporation investigating BC Ferries said it has already sent structural engineers to investigate the complaints and photograph the alleged damage. Meanwhile, the corporation has taken steps to cut down the noise from the new ferries, including reducing the ferry propeller vibrations and engine noise while the boats are docked, said spokeswoman Deborah Marshall. "We have recently installed an engine exhaust silencer on the Coastal Celebration, and it seems to have helped with that issue," she said. "So we will be installing the product on the other two vessels." But residents said they are not convinced the problem has been solved and that if major damage occurs to their homes or the nearby embankments, they haven't ruled out taking legal action to seek compensation. BC Ferries has not yet publicly said what the horsepower of the three new Coastal Class ferries is but at 160 metres in length, they are about 20 metres longer than the older Queen class ships that still service the Nanaimo to Vancouver route.
I couldn't help but notice the obvious lack of research done regarding the horsepower ratings. Two minutes on FSG's site and I had found the power ratings and done the conversion to horsepower. I may have known where to look already, but this should not have been more than a 10 minute exercise for the reporter...
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Post by Northern Exploration on Aug 27, 2008 7:31:36 GMT -8
Low frequency rumbling can indeed cause long term isses with structures. Have these residents ever stood in a building that is directly over a subway? I daresay that type of movement should cause massive problems. However, they are still standing. The same for the streetcars here in Toronto. They were overbuilt and very heavy, emitting a rumbling sound when they pass by if they are going at any reasonable speed. There was issues of wall cracks for some houses but I believe that has stopped. We are talking a matter of 40 feet here and direct through ground not through the air. And it isn't as if these people are not living in a fault/quake zone. We lived through two large tremors when we lived there. Dad actually had bought an earthquake rider on our house insurance and was the object of much teasing by friends and family for it. Until of course we had a major tremor and walls were cracked, pictures fell, plates and brick brack broken, etc. When those friends added up the damage and ours was readily fixed the teasing stopped . It is plausible but not probable in my mind. So cracks in retaining walls and structural issues sounds like "lets see what we can get from the ferries" or people who don't really understand the physics totally coming to a conclusion. Akin to the people here who want an airport to pay for sound deadening glass and windows in houses built along the approach paths to the airport despite the houses being built long after the runways. There actually is a grant people can apply for as a "good neighbour policy". Brings to mind a biblical story. Maybe we can have Flug play his horn, along with his band, march around the houses and see if he can bring down those walls. Now the other side of the coin is the rumbling could be very annoying. If there is reasonable modifications that BC Ferries can make to lessen the sound impact with the mufflers and if the modifications to the props can reduce the chopping sound and vibration than by all means it should be done. Cue our resident engineer.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 27, 2008 8:08:09 GMT -8
Brings to mind a biblical story. Maybe we can have Flug play his horn, along with his band, march around the houses and see if he can bring down those walls. By marching around the city 7 times, I'll be able to do 1-lap for each of the seven-sisters. I'm not just Joshing you on that one....... ;D
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Aug 27, 2008 8:18:21 GMT -8
To quote a professor, "If it vibrates, it's going to break..." Sound damping and vibration reduction/elimination are not simple tasks. Typically, the most effective way to do both is to increase the mass of the affected object, thereby altering the natural frequency of it, and increasing the energy required to produce detectable vibrations. This is not exactly cost effective for BCFS, though You often see the type of damage being claimed near mines where blasting is occurring. However, in that situation, the energy from the explosives is significant and drives the native underlying structures to "ring" (vibrate) in their natural frequency. Sometimes you will see super-positioning (where peaks of sound waves fall on top of each other and are added together) of sound waves as they reflect off of structural interfaces in the rock and soil. It gets pretty complicated when you try to take into account all the interactions. If the damage is being caused by the ferries, it sounds like either the frequency of the new ferries' exhausts, or the final addition of the propeller wash frequencies in Mode 2 (I'll leave all the nonlinear physics of water wave interaction, and super-positioning for another discussion ;D) is near some multiple of the natural frequency of the native underlying structures surrounding Departure Bay. In this way, the vibrations produced by the Super C's are feeding on themselves to produce enough vibration to cause actual damage to structures surrounding the harbour...not unlike Flug blowing his horn at just the right note . I am very curious to see kam's frequency analysis as the new ferries approach the terminal.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Aug 27, 2008 8:24:49 GMT -8
Apologies to all because when I cue'd the engineer I forgot to request English not Engineerese . Flug, poor Queen of Richmond is always the Cinderella left out sister. Haha Flug good one with "Joshing." I would never Josh you eh? (not exactly an "ah" but was stumped by that )
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Aug 27, 2008 8:28:04 GMT -8
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Aug 28, 2008 12:00:10 GMT -8
lol...I'm going to take a minute to translate . Take a bell and hit it with a hammer...the ringing caused is a good analogy for a single explosive blast. Hitting the bell again will cause it to ring longer, but not louder...unless you happen to be hitting it at its natural harmonic. When I spoke about nonlinear wave interaction in water waves, I was referring to a specific outcome of such interactions known as a 'soliton', more popularly known as a "rogue wave". Such an event could cause a ringing episode similar to the explosive mine blast or hitting the bell with a hammer. Surprisingly, these soliton events happen alot more frequently than scientists thought. Hope that clarifies my little tidbit from before ;D
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Sept 3, 2008 17:51:13 GMT -8
Moved down to seperate post...
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Post by Dane on Sept 3, 2008 18:10:12 GMT -8
... She looks, so different ... Thanks for the photo's here and coming Scott
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Sept 3, 2008 19:29:08 GMT -8
Coastal Celebration features a sunrise/sunset theme throughout. Like the Renaissance and Inspiration, she is identical in layout other than the Pacific Buffet in place of the Sitka Coffee Place. In terms of improvements from a passengers perspective, the landings in the stairwells leading to and from Deck 2 seem larger, the outside emergency stairwells that lead from Deck 5 to 7 now have a plastic covering over the painted metal and signage in key areas also has braille added. Entry to the Pacific Buffet is located on the port side next to the Seawest Lounge. Inside the buffet... A few random outside shots... Like her sisters, they are painting over her built by Flensburger sign. Her VEM drive motor, number one end... Number one end prop shaft... I will be posting pictures of the new Departure Bay departures area in another topic... More photos here.Disclaimer - the Coastal Celebration is under full-time 24/7 security at Departure Bay. I had permission to board her while being accompanied by an employee of BCFS.
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Post by DENelson83 on Sept 3, 2008 19:41:28 GMT -8
Like her sisters, they are painting over her built by Flensburger sign. Shhhhh!!! Don't let Brink know!
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Post by Ferryman on Sept 3, 2008 20:02:57 GMT -8
Awesome photos, Scott! I'm truely jealous you were able to go aboard and have free roam of the ship though! Were you able to find the control box that tunes the pitch of the horns to change it from an E-diminished to an E-Major chord?
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Sept 3, 2008 21:00:56 GMT -8
We had a brief look in the wheelhouse but I forgot to look at the whistle control. Sorry, Chris...
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Post by herrbrinkmann on Sept 4, 2008 2:26:43 GMT -8
Like her sisters, they are painting over her built by Flensburger sign. Shhhhh!!! Don't let Brink know! I think we will omit the BCF logo on the Northern Expedition as a revenge ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2008 6:17:26 GMT -8
why would they do that?
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Post by DENelson83 on Sept 4, 2008 13:03:50 GMT -8
He was joking.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2008 14:45:40 GMT -8
no about taking away the bulit by flensburger or am i losing my memory.
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