Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,182
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Post by Neil on Jan 26, 2012 22:29:26 GMT -8
I'm going to say something that will probably not be appreciated by a lot of forum members, but... there's so little friction on this forum lately, maybe a little won't hurt.
A couple of days ago, the ferry commissioner released the review of the Coastal Ferry Act, the commissioner's role, and the general state of things with BC Ferries.
It was, arguably, one of the biggest ferry stories in recent years, and one that could spark changes in virtually every aspect of BC Ferries' operation.
As of this evening, exactly six out of three hundred-some forum members have chosen to comment on it. I'm curious as to the reason for all the apathy. Have we morphed into pretty much a photo-centric board, where the classical notion of a forum no longer interests people?
Some time back, a journalist member noted the lively, informed discussion and debate that she said marked the forum. I wonder if she would have the same view, these days.
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Mirrlees
Voyager
Bathtub!
Deck Engineer- Queen of Richmond
Posts: 1,013
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Post by Mirrlees on Jan 26, 2012 22:50:19 GMT -8
Point taken, Neil The reason I have not commented yet is because I wanted to read through the report to make an informed decision. I have been rather busy lately and haven't read through all of it yet.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 26, 2012 22:53:14 GMT -8
I'm going to say something that will probably not be appreciated by a lot of forum members, but... there's so little friction on this forum lately, maybe a little won't hurt. A couple of days ago, the ferry commissioner released the review of the Coastal Ferry Act, the commissioner's role, and the general state of things with BC Ferries. It was, arguably, one of the biggest ferry stories in recent years, and one that could spark changes in virtually every aspect of BC Ferries' operation. As of this evening, exactly six out of three hundred-some forum members have chosen to comment on it. I'm curious as to the reason for all the apathy. Have we morphed into pretty much a photo-centric board, where the classical notion of a forum no longer interests people? Some time back, a journalist member noted the lively, informed discussion and debate that she said marked the forum. I wonder if she would have the same view, these days. I agree with your comments, Neil. The PT#3 submission process was huge in terms of impact on BCFerries and all that we like to discuss and photograph, and I'd been eagerly anticipating a conclusion to the PT#3 speculation, which was put on-hold by this review. And the release of the Review Report was a huge story. Things like vessel replacement are frequent topics of speculation on this forum. But these reports give the opportunity for informed discussion and yet some people prefer to ignore the reports and keep on with casual speculation. I remember member "Cascade" chastising people to "Read the Act !" in his posts back in the early days of BCFS. It took a while for me to realize that the answers to many speculative questions were to be found in the legislation, the contracts and in the reports. - all readily available on the internet.......
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Post by WettCoast on Jan 26, 2012 22:56:43 GMT -8
Neil, what you have written is provocative... A few months ago, I wrote the following on another thread: The main stream media in BC is finally coming to the realization that by far the biggest screw up (or scandal, or whatever you want to call it) in the 50+ year history of BC Ferries is this 'privatization' boondoggle gifted to the people of BC by Gordon Campbell, Christie Clark, Kevin 'Cadillac' Falcon and the rest of the so-called BC Liberals. We need to put the breaks on this failed experiment ASAP! In my mind the new report from the Commissioner proves beyond any doubt what I have stated above. I think that you are right about where the BC side of the forum seems to be heading. I love the photography (and contribute my fair share with that), but I think we need a lot more in-depth discussion of the big issues that are alive and not-so-well on BC's coast today. I also found it to be somewhat unsettling in the lack of response to BCFS's assertion that 'hard landings' such as the recent Duke Point incident, are just normal routine business at BCFS, and nothing to get all worked up about. For more lively discussion of the issues I have, of late, been keeping an eye on BC maritime blogs such as Ms Montgomery's and the Tidal Station.
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mrdot
Voyager
Mr. DOT
Posts: 1,252
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Post by mrdot on Jan 26, 2012 23:30:33 GMT -8
:)you know why I am passivly num on the dreadful coastal ferry act, is that in my retirement years I am trying to keep my blood pressure down, and as the carter family would sing, I am trying to keep on the sunny side, in the hope that a brighter day is coming! I try not to think about all the claw backs, that I am afraid are around the corner! mrdot.
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Post by lmtengs on Jan 26, 2012 23:55:36 GMT -8
I mainly joined for the photos and the group trips, but I have ended up sharing my (generally atypical) views fairly often in the discussion boards too, seeing as I can only fit in a trip a month on the ferry in most cases. Keeping in mind that I'm not the biggest fan of bashing people (with exception to public figures, as has been seen here fairly often), I try not to argue to much with other users here. Takes up too much effort.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 27, 2012 8:02:27 GMT -8
Keeping in mind that I'm not the biggest fan of bashing people (with exception to public figures, as has been seen here fairly often), I try not to argue to much with other users here. Takes up too much effort. The trick to to challenge and discuss, without bashing. That's a challenge for me, because I get irked easily. But it can be done, if we're able to filter-out rhetoric and bias and really hear what people are saying.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 28, 2012 10:28:21 GMT -8
For more lively discussion of the issues I have, of late, been keeping an eye on BC maritime blogs such as Ms Montgomery's and the Tidal Station. I like our forum setup for discussion. I think that our probards-setup is better for ongoing discussion than the comments-section of Ms. Montgomery's blog. - And Tidal-Station's blog is a closed-off "I am God" type of setup where he preaches and people read. But no discussion. The back-and-forth discussion on Ms. Montgomery's blog's comments-section features quite a bit of sniping at "Kevin S" from "Tidal Station", again with one playing the role of all-knowing and the other continually being put down. - I don't call that "discussion". Over here on our little forum, our discussion is limited by the participants: - Some are challenged with the use of words: Take a look at any of the continual "I meant to say this", "What do you mean" types of simple understandings on the main threads (search "structural failure" on this forum, and you'll know what I mean). So how could a meaningful discussion ever break out from that? - Some are stingy with their words: Post a photo with no words (other than the warning not to steal the photo), and also do the absolute types of statements about "Without a doubt, it is this ship", without explaining why. Again, how can conversation or discussion break out from that? - And some are the quirky type who are impossible to have a conversation with, even face-to-face. People who would be unable to clearly tell anyone how to get from one side of the street to another. - And you never know if you're challenging a point from a 13-year-old typical kid, or someone with a legitimate developmental-issue, someone with a single-issue axe to grind, someone who just finds it difficult to articulate what he's thinking into words, or someone who was drunk when he posted a rambling comment at 2:00am. How does meaningful discussion break out from that? For me, I'm challenged in my various postings of news clips or report excerpts to make sure that I take time to read what I've pasted/posted, think about it, and then post some of my own thoughts on this. Rather than just copying items for someone else to discuss, I need to participate more.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 28, 2012 11:11:20 GMT -8
As of this evening, exactly six out of three hundred-some forum members have chosen to comment on it. I'm curious as to the reason for all the apathy. Have we morphed into pretty much a photo-centric board, where the classical notion of a forum no longer interests people? I think that 6 (or maybe double or triple that to include those who read & follow the issue, but don't have the time to comment on it) is a good reflection of the number of people interested in this issue. - Ferry-fannery is a niche sport, and this topic is a niche topic within that niche. So it's doubly rare for someone to be interested in this stuff. People (forum members in general) are interested in the outcomes of this stuff, but are not interested in the details of this stuff. - I'm an exception, as are the others who've chosen to follow that Review Report issue. We can sit back and enjoy watching the forum-masses speculate about issues that we know the answer to already..... ;D I'm content being part of a minority within a minority.
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Post by Mike C on Jan 28, 2012 12:42:38 GMT -8
I'm going to say something that will probably not be appreciated by a lot of forum members, but... there's so little friction on this forum lately, maybe a little won't hurt. A couple of days ago, the ferry commissioner released the review of the Coastal Ferry Act, the commissioner's role, and the general state of things with BC Ferries. It was, arguably, one of the biggest ferry stories in recent years, and one that could spark changes in virtually every aspect of BC Ferries' operation. As of this evening, exactly six out of three hundred-some forum members have chosen to comment on it. I'm curious as to the reason for all the apathy. Have we morphed into pretty much a photo-centric board, where the classical notion of a forum no longer interests people? Some time back, a journalist member noted the lively, informed discussion and debate that she said marked the forum. I wonder if she would have the same view, these days. I am one of those interested in this report, among the many issues of this forum. Bear in mind, that not all like to participate - I have thoroughly enjoyed the discussion the CFA review, and appreciate the diverse set of opinions this forum offers. I, like many others, do not have the time to sit down and read through it. I have been reading bits and pieces of it as I sit on my 1.5 hour transit commute to college, or at home in bed. I, like many others, do not know enough about it to form an opinion, although I appreciate Flugel's summary notes. It is worthy to note that, as of the time of this post, the thread has been viewed some 461 times. Also, bear in mind, that there are maybe 30-40 regular participants in the British Columbia areas of the forum. Other huge bases for this forum are Washington and Alaska, both of which have surged in popularity in the past year or two. As for C Montgomery's blog, I read through it all the time, and love her style of writing. I don't think that's discussion though (a constant back and forth between Kevin S and Tidal Station), and like Flugel said, Tidal Station's "venting blog" of his highly inflated ego is a place I avoid visiting at all. Again, I am on this forum for the diverse set of opinions, and I appreciate you all sharing.
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Post by lmtengs on Jan 28, 2012 14:19:48 GMT -8
It is worthy to note that, as of the time of this post, the thread has been viewed some 461 times. At least five of those views would have been from my computer. Whenever I go to the forum, I take a look at the New Topics page, and open every thread that has the little Slug flag indicating the page has had an update. Some threads I read through, some I just scan. Being viewed 461 times definitely doesn't mean that every word's been scrutinized by interested eyes 461 times.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jan 28, 2012 18:27:27 GMT -8
I have read parts of the report, and have read all of Flug's clips of the parts he thought was significant (thanks as usual). Timing right now for me is the issue with spare reading time at a premium. Doesn't mean I am dis-interested but rather economical where I am spending my time.
Reports like this are dime a dozen. Governments ignore them, cherry pick some points to implement, or go crazy with them and use the report as a template for action. Seeing what Victoria decides to run with will be the time to spew forth and pontificate.
I have read two books this week in what spare time I have garnered so don't think I am hibernating in the East's mild temperatures. I signed a major retailer as a sponsor for a charity, and beaten all my restaurant friends up for certificates for a charity silent auction. Now working on getting wine donated for a gala. So much for January being slow, snowy and sleepy.
I said on Facebook that I wanted a blizzard. Still waiting........
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,182
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Post by Neil on Jan 28, 2012 23:17:45 GMT -8
I have read parts of the report, and have read all of Flug's clips of the parts he thought was significant (thanks as usual). Timing right now for me is the issue with spare reading time at a premium. Doesn't mean I am dis-interested but rather economical where I am spending my time. Reports like this are dime a dozen. Governments ignore them, cherry pick some points to implement, or go crazy with them and use the report as a template for action. Seeing what Victoria decides to run with will be the time to spew forth and pontificate. I have read two books this week in what spare time I have garnered so don't think I am hibernating in the East's mild temperatures. I signed a major retailer as a sponsor for a charity, and beaten all my restaurant friends up for certificates for a charity silent auction. Now working on getting wine donated for a gala. So much for January being slow, snowy and sleepy. I said on Facebook that I wanted a blizzard. Still waiting........ Well, if I'd known you were so busy, I wouldn't have been so presumptuous as to ask my question... I guess some of us just have so much time on our hands, we tend to spew forth and pontificate at the drop of a hat...
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Post by lmtengs on Jan 28, 2012 23:45:10 GMT -8
I'm just wondering if I'm the only person who's noticed a huge relaxening of the 'no hotlinking external images' rule lately. I've seen quite a few webcam screenshots lately too. Does that count as hotlinking, since the image is not the poster's property since it originated on an external site? I guess that could be debated.
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Jan 29, 2012 0:14:15 GMT -8
I'm just wondering if I'm the only person who's noticed a huge relaxening of the 'no hotlinking external images' rule lately. To be clear for everyone, "hotlinking" is when you take the URL of an image currently hosted by another site (a site that is not yours) and proceed to post that URL to another site (like the forum) using tags. There has not been a "huge" slackening of this rule. Though, I'll admit it's hard to check the source URL from a tablet, as I have been using one almost exclusively over the last two weeks.
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Post by lmtengs on Jan 29, 2012 1:33:35 GMT -8
I'm just wondering if I'm the only person who's noticed a huge relaxening of the 'no hotlinking external images' rule lately. To be clear for everyone, "hotlinking" is when you take the URL of an image currently hosted by another site (a site that is not yours) and proceed to post that URL to another site (like the forum) using tags. There has not been a "huge" slackening of this rule. Though, I'll admit it's hard to check the source URL from a tablet, as I have been using one almost exclusively over the last two weeks. Well then what I mean is posting images that you don't necessarily have copyright rights to post... Like the webcam shots, ebay images, or anything else that you didn't get permission to post from the rightful owner. I realize that many historical photos are old enough to be in the public domain, so those are ay-okay to post.
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Nick
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Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,078
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Post by Nick on Jan 29, 2012 5:36:57 GMT -8
To be clear for everyone, "hotlinking" is when you take the URL of an image currently hosted by another site (a site that is not yours) and proceed to post that URL to another site (like the forum) using tags. There has not been a "huge" slackening of this rule. Though, I'll admit it's hard to check the source URL from a tablet, as I have been using one almost exclusively over the last two weeks. Well then what I mean is posting images that you don't necessarily have copyright rights to post... Like the webcam shots, ebay images, or anything else that you didn't get permission to post from the rightful owner. I realize that many historical photos are old enough to be in the public domain, so those are ay-okay to post. Generally the accepted rule has been to allow external images as long as the source is credited if known. If we were only posting our own images this forum would get very boring very fast. To re-iterate what Scott said, "hotlinking" is posting images from a server using bandwidth that isn't yours. It's all about bandwidth, not the ownership of the photos.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 29, 2012 11:05:02 GMT -8
My personal rule of thumb is to stick to posting of images that I own, with a few exceptions used in moderation. Those exceptions are: - Temporary items that the source owner wouldn't be keeping. ie. webcam images which refresh over 1,000 times per day. These images are generally poor quality but are useful forum items because they capture a moment of something significant happening. Us forum-geeks are likely the only people to want a permanent record of those sorts of things. - The occasional EBay for-sale image. The quality of such an item posted on the forum is generally poor, so the only purpose is to preserve a permanent view of something that might only be available for view on the EBay website temporarily. And it should be for something rare and of interest. No one needs to see endless low-quality for-sale images, but a few that enhance our forum collection of a particular rare ship are ok. - The occasional cover of a book that I've bought. Just for show-and-tell sake. Keep in mind that some rules are meant for people who lack the self-control to make some judgments in moderation. If someone lacks the judgment or self-control, then an absolute rule is better.
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Post by lmtengs on Jan 29, 2012 11:34:31 GMT -8
Okay, I was just checking, because on the rare occasion that I do post an image that I don't maintain copyright to, I'm always on my toes hoping I can still log into the forum the next day!
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Dispensing gallons of useless information daily...
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Jan 29, 2012 17:16:08 GMT -8
I have read parts of the report, and have read all of Flug's clips of the parts he thought was significant (thanks as usual). Timing right now for me is the issue with spare reading time at a premium. Doesn't mean I am dis-interested but rather economical where I am spending my time. Reports like this are dime a dozen. Governments ignore them, cherry pick some points to implement, or go crazy with them and use the report as a template for action. Seeing what Victoria decides to run with will be the time to spew forth and pontificate. I have read two books this week in what spare time I have garnered so don't think I am hibernating in the East's mild temperatures. I signed a major retailer as a sponsor for a charity, and beaten all my restaurant friends up for certificates for a charity silent auction. Now working on getting wine donated for a gala. So much for January being slow, snowy and sleepy. I said on Facebook that I wanted a blizzard. Still waiting........ Well, if I'd known you were so busy, I wouldn't have been so presumptuous as to ask my question... I guess some of us just have so much time on our hands, we tend to spew forth and pontificate at the drop of a hat... lol...just wait until pnwt gets that wine donated, then we'll see who's pontificating at the drop of a hat... ;D
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jan 30, 2012 8:57:14 GMT -8
Well, if I'd known you were so busy, I wouldn't have been so presumptuous as to ask my question... I guess some of us just have so much time on our hands, we tend to spew forth and pontificate at the drop of a hat... lol...just wait until pnwt gets that wine donated, then we'll see who's pontificating at the drop of a hat... ;D Sounds like I was bragging but really just whining because January used to be not so busy. I had a feeling the wine not whine would bring BCinNJ out of hibernation. Usually it is to tell me he can get the same bottle half the price south of the border. Pontificating won't be at a drop of a hat because hats aren't needed with this bizzare weather. And it won't be a drop of a drop of wine because that would be real cause to whine.
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Post by timmyboy on Jan 30, 2012 9:47:01 GMT -8
Ah BCinNJ's not whining because he has been so lucky as to be able to go out to those East Coast beachs lately without need of a parka. I think he's even done it in his shorts as it was +15C the other day.
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Dispensing gallons of useless information daily...
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Jan 30, 2012 16:19:19 GMT -8
Ah BCinNJ's not whining because he has been so lucky as to be able to go out to those East Coast beachs lately without need of a parka. I think he's even done it in his shorts as it was +15C the other day. Jealous? ;D
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 22, 2012 8:47:05 GMT -8
Yesterday in one of the BC threads, we had a blow-up of political rhetoric, including a post that included a violence-metaphor, which was subsequently deleted.
So it's a good time to remind people of the type of style that this forum is, and what types of things are out-of-place.
As experienced yesterday, and a few times previously, any allusion or reference of violence to anybody, public figure or not, metaphorically or not, should have no place on this here forum. Not even as a joke. We take those things very seriously. - If you don't agree with this, then don't participate on this forum.
If you're going to venture into political comment (and with a publicly funded / regulated ferry service, that's likely to happen regularly), then you need to be careful to keep your comments reasoned and to-the-point, without it becoming rhetoric, non-sensical, off-topic or mean spirited.
And here's an important point: If you're going to make political comments, then don't pretend that your posts are non-political. And don't tell others to stay away from political comments. If you're going to make political comment, then be prepared to tolerate opposing viewpoints and be prepared to admit to your own biases.
For people who are unable to keep their political posts civil and discussion-friendly, please don't post. - If you're unable to exercise self-discipline in this regard, then your posts will be deleted and you'll eventually find your way out of this forum.
But for those who are able to articulate your beliefs and viewpoints in a discussion-friendly way, please do so. We need to hear your point of view and reasonings on the various ferry issues.
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Post by priver on Feb 22, 2012 18:21:18 GMT -8
Just wondering whats up with the clock for the forum lol its been off by 3 hours for days
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