The Northern Adventure's arrival

[ProudCanuck]

yvr said:

Sonia Car Deck

On page 3 Kam posted a photo of the car deck.

What is that loop turn around supposed to do for us here in Canada. It looks like part of a go cart track. Certainly if your vehicle is larger than a Smart Car you can't use it. In fact, if your driving skills are not up to par you might accidentally drive off it. But remember folks - this is the best your ferry corporation could come up with, and it only cost you $106 million!!!

Who is to say that during the refit this wraparound ramp is not going to be removed?

[Low Light Mike]

Pardon a friendly satire break, from this pile-on:

re the words "northern adventure" and the various letters contained therein:

These 2 words include the letters for the phrase "Not Neat" or "Not True".

Spelled backwards is: "Erutnevda Nrehtron" . If I type this into Google, I get no results/hits. Why?


Sonia backwards is of course "Ainos"....and Google says that Ainos may refer to Aenus, an ancient Greek city in Thrace, near the Aegean coast, or the Ainu people of Japan.

Wikipedia says that the prevailing mythology in Japan has been of the Ainu as a race of "noble savages." Traditional Ainu culture is quite different from Japanese culture. Never shaving after a certain age, the men had full beards and moustaches. Men and women alike cut their hair level with the shoulders at the sides of the head, but trimmed it semicircularly behind. The women tattooed their mouths, arms, clitorides, and sometimes their foreheads, starting at the onset of puberty. The soot deposited on a pot hung over a fire of birch bark was used for colour. The village chief performs whatever religious ceremonies are necessary; ceremonies are confined to making libations of rice beer, uttering prayers, and offering willow sticks with wooden shavings attached to them. These sticks are called Inau (singular) and nusa (plural). They are placed on an altar used to sacrifice the heads of killed animals.

==========================

ok, carry on.

[Kam]

cascade said:

I would think that a bow door system on the Sonia - will require a lot more than cutting a hole.

There is ballast tanks to consider - where would you re-position these tanks?

I'm an engineer, but not a marine engineer, so please excuse my ignorance… but wouldn’t ballast tanks be below the car deck level? My understanding of the function of ballast tanks is to lower the center of gravity of the ship to make it more stable as well as to trim up any levelling issues. This would make putting a ballast tank up in the bow pointless, no?

But I agree about the ramp, it’s only going to be useful for smaller cars, and even at that, I foresee many problems. North American drivers cant get seem to manage an underground parade without bashing up against walls and pillars. I can only imagine how that railing is going to look after a while.

I think I’m confident to make a future prediction here… If BCF doesn’t fit NA with a bow door during the refit, I’m willing to bet that within a couple of years of service she will be back in dry-dock having one installed.

Just have to wait and see on that one.

[Dane]

I don't wanna be too shocking in this idea, but perhaps BC Ferries could only use it for small cars? Trucks in NA are generally bigger than Europe, but cars are pretty much the same (consider what a large account European cars have on NA sales, and then consider a large majority of the Asian car markey competes directly with a European car at about the same measurements).

My Northern Adventure trip was a total suprise, I was actually at CFB Esquimalt and I ran into a friend from when I was about 10-12 years old (I haven't changed in 10 years) and they worked oever at Dockyard so I took a trip over. Sadly, no exciting gossip.

As for the furniture, who cares. Besides as per ussual I'm sure most of it is going to a good cause here in BC...

[yvr]

A guest under another thread asked for the Sonia deck plans. What we have is under "BCF News". Check page 3 under - Breaking news BCF finds replacement for QON. Page 5 of that thread, Wet Coastal Kid has some excellent material. Perhaps Flugel can drag it up to this thread, or WCK can repost.

[Mike C]

Wrong Mike, right stuff.

Scroll down to post #141 by WCK: ferriesbc.proboards20.com/index.cgi?board=bcferriesnews&action=display&thread=1149886115&page=6

Click on the links to view the drawings.

[jjr]

Maybe I'm stupid or something - but I can't figure out this turnaround ramp thingy ... what possible use is it?

1. Why have it? Can't you just turnaround on the main car deck?
2. With this design (only rear loading/unloading) don't you always need an empty lane on the car deck (in this case lined up with one end of the turnaround ramp)? If so you waste deck space etc.

Earlier in this thread (I think) there was discussion about transport trucks etc. On the northern routes almost all of the commercial truck traffic is drop trailers, which BCF loads and unloads themselves with those little tractor trucks. That gives them time to load and unload without delaying other car traffic (if of course the ferry is on schedule).

[jjr]

Okay I'm stupid - I think I figured it out. You use the turnaround ramp when you are loading the ship . That way all the vehicles are facing the stern for unloading, except for the one lane still leading to the turnaround lane where the vehicles face the bow.

[jjr]

Looking at the plans referenced elsewhere, there seem to be two car decks. Deck 3 is the main car deck with the stern ramps, and Deck 4 shows two ramps at the bow end leading down to Deck 3, one on either side of the deck. Maybe I'm reading the plans wrong, and Deck 4 is actually just the top side of Deck 3 (to allow the height necessary for overheight vehicles.

If she only has one car deck, how can she carry pretty much the same number of vehicles as the QPR ....

[yvr]

Sonia Decks

From the deck plans, the main car deck is 3. Looking closely at deck two, forward of the engine room it appears there could be a well, with a ramp from deck 3 down to deck 2. If I'm correct, they could place smaller vehicles down there. Maybe this deck is sealed off while the vessel is at sea? Perhaps some form of hydraulically actuated hatch cover provides access to the ramp. On the QON this area was called tween decks and was fitted with cabins. Now look at Sonia's deck 4, it appears to resemble the turn around ramp. The photo on page 3 does not provide depth, and the deck plan is out of focus, but it does appear the go cart track is indeed deck 4. Studying the plans, there's equipment, or stairs in the middle of deck 4 that would appear to make vehicle access impossible. Of course there's a possibility the vessel was modified after delivery.

(Designed in Greece you say, maybe they should have stuck to something they know how to make - Souvalaki!)

Do any of our members have access to a clearer set of deck plans?

[Low Light Mike]

jjr said:

Looking at the plans referenced elsewhere, there seem to be two car decks. Deck 3 is the main car deck with the stern ramps, and Deck 4 shows two ramps at the bow end leading down to Deck 3, one on either side of the deck. Maybe I'm reading the plans wrong, and Deck 4 is actually just the top side of Deck 3 (to allow the height necessary for overheight vehicles.

Most of the enclosed ferries in the BCF fleet have a main car deck classified as "2 decks", so that the ramps/platforms/gallery/galley decks are considered their own special deck #.

Queen of the North had 8 official decks:
1 engine room
2 tween deck (crew accomodations)
3 car deck - main
4 car deck - platforms
5 saloon deck
6 passenger lounge deck
7 boat deck
8 solarium deck (very narrow)

[WettCoast]

I am surprised that there has been no comment on matter of aceess to the car deck from above decks while the ship is underway. I am assuming that the current modifications now underway will correct this. Otherwise you will have access to your car only when the ship is in port. No means to retrieve your medicine from the car, it would seem...

For more see the bottom right corner of this link - make sure you are viewing it full size
img134.imageshack.us/img134/6260/soniainfo14nd.jpg

[Ferryman]

Notably, passengers parking their car in the lower hold will have no access to any staircase but they simply just have to walk up the ramp again!

That seems kind of odd. Though I've heard access to the car deck is not permitted while the ship is underway up there, so it kind of makes sense. But I sure hope they do fix that, so there is at least some sort of access down to the car deck.

[Dane]

Maybe Cascade can elaborate, but isn't non-access actually more common than not for Ferries, and BCFS and WSF are among the exceptions? I may be mistaken, as I can't remember where I heard that. I was also under the impression none of the Northern vessels allowed access to the car deck except under certain times/conditions?

[Low Light Mike]

I didn't notice that before (because I didn't bother to read it....oops).

Thanks for bringing this issue to our attention, Jim.

That lack of access to vehicle-deck during the voyage definitely needs to be fixed.

[WettCoast]

If you need something from your vehicle while underway you can access the car deck on the QPR just by asking at the Purser's Office. Same rule applies/applied on QotN & Chilliwack. Access is restricted but not impossible. If you look at the Sonia deck plans that I posted earlier you will see that there is no staircase other than from the shore passenger ramp at the stern! Crew must use ladders?

[Low Light Mike]

dane said:

I was also under the impression none of the Northern vessels allowed access to the car deck except under certain times/conditions?

That's correct. The ship will announce that vehicle access is allowed for next 15 minutes, for instance....and then next access will be say 2 hours later.

[yvr]

Car Deck Access

I believe we may be interpreting the statement on car deck access incorrectly. What I believe the statement is referring to is the deck two automobile well. It appears there are no stairs / elevator from this deck. Gaining access to the passenger areas of the ship, one would have to walk back up the 2.6m wide vehicle ramp then proceed aft across the main car deck (3). In the area of the funnel stacks are the stairs. In fact there maybe an elevator situated in this area. (Check your deck plans carefully on the starboard side.) To increase vehicle capacity it appears, and I stress appears that there is a deck 3 hatch that would close off deck two whilst the vessel is sailing. This would effectively seal deck two and it's contents off until deck 3 was unloaded. Of course there's a possibility BCF may not use the deck 2 vehicle well. It's probably a claustrophobic little area with minimal area to turn your car around. Can you believe the deck height is 1.9 M.

Other members have mentioned that the Sonia holds fewer vehicles than the QON. Yet the deck two vehicle well holds 28. Deck 3, the main deck is 134, and the go cart track (deck 4) supposedly accommodates 20 at 2.18M vertically. Of course these 182 cars are European in size, but if BCF uses all the decks efficiently, they might be able to squeeze more than the 101 they mention in their press release.

I can see it now: Persons taller than this bar cannot be accommodated on Deck 2.

[Scott]

1.9 meters! Wow... that's about how tall I am:) But my car would fit.

Months ago I heard rumblings from David Hahn that future new regulations would require all passengers to move to the passenger decks and access to vehicle decks would be restricted, even on the southern routes. I think it mainly came up when terrorism was a big topic in the news.

[NMcKay]

all the open deck will be fine too. they dont have enclosed decks, and therefore cannot trap water, but im sure your right, the sonia will be the only enclosed deck ferry that meats SOLAS 90 +50

[BrianWilliams]

SOLAS 90: a PDF can be found at www.imo.org/includes/blast_bindoc.asp?doc_id=437&format=PDF

It's long and numbing in detail, but a couple of relevant references can be found on pp 9 and 10 - amendments in response to the 1987 Herald Of Free Enterprise capsize; and page 20 describes the tightened non-damage stability rules enacted after MV Estonia's 1994 tragedy.

[BrianWilliams]

BCF regulations have seemed kinda vague for many years.

I remember the 1970 Q Victoria collision with a Russian freighter that killed three passengers on the car deck; after that, BCF required that all auto passengers go topside during voyages on the larger boats.

It's never been strictly enforced -- except on the Northern routes. My latest experience was Q Chilliwack to Bella Coola. We had two mutts in the car. BCF staff at Bear Cove said we could have two brief visits on the 13-hr trip, accompanied by a crewmember, and by prior arrangement with the purser.

Huh. En route, Chilli's friendly crew said, "Go on down whenever ya want. Please pick up the poop, though. It's dark, and we step in too many dog turds..." As always, we scooped, and were grateful for their sympathy.

But BCF is right to close the car decks on a trip. Safety is first - the couple who are missing from QOTN may have been below when she went down. Whatever may have gone wrong that night: BCF crew assembled the passengers they could find, deployed boats and rafts - and had the marvellous help that rushed out from Hartley Bay to complete what should have been a no-fatality rescue.

[Koastal Karl]

There are still people who sit in their cars on the mainland routes. Just the other day on the Queen of Esquimalt on route 2 there were people sitting in their cars for the whole trip.

[Dane]

karl said:

There are still people who sit in their cars on the mainland routes. Just the other day on the Queen of Esquimalt on route 2 there were people sitting in their cars for the whole trip.

... my dad. LOL

[ProudCanuck]

karl said:

There are still people who sit in their cars on the mainland routes. Just the other day on the Queen of Esquimalt on route 2 there were people sitting in their cars for the whole trip.

I do quite often. Where else on the ships can you sleep in peace, quiet and some comfort?