Horseshoe Bay Terminal

[CN2972South]

I should clarify, RailAmerica's corporate office is the one saying "F**** off we don't want your business" the E&N local office in Nanaimo is working with what little money RailAmerica gives them to try and get a couple more customers.

BTW Brian, not many railways run 3-man crew on road freights anymore. Most of the time only the conductor and locomotive engineer are on road freights. The E&N still uses 3-man crews in the Wellcox yard, but on the road they use 2-man crews. Southern Railway of BC still uses 3-man crews but only because they do so much switching en route.

[NMcKay]

i once took a trip on the carrier princess from Downtown Nanaimo to Delta, it was a nice ride, taking a little more than 2 hours to complete, and the facilities on board were incredible. i could not beleave that they were not taking advantage of the Cpacity on this vessel for truckers and the such

[CN2972South]

cascade said:

Why doesn't another company purchase the line if it has potential ?

There are two railway companies bidding on the operator contract with the Island corridor Foundation. RailAmerica is holding out until they get at least $1.75 million USD for their portions of the E&N, CP has already agreed to hand their parts of the E&N over for a tax receipt.

[CN2972South]

cascade said:

.

SO - why doesn't the BC or Federal government purchase the rail net work - make sure all the rails and signaling equipment works - then "lease" out time - space on the network to private operators - which can haul - move any products that they can attract to the business?

The Province just privatized BC Rail, I don't think they want to pick up another railway that isn't making money and the feds want to cut VIA's subsidiaries so they wouldn't likely take over the E&N.

Who are the two firms- interested in the business - local ie BC or Canadian?

I cannot divulge who the bidders are, that's confidential information, but they are local, one is from Vancouver and one is from Victoria.

[CN2972South]

One of the companies, the owner is a multi-billionaire and owns his own marine company and would probably have the two companies working together. Not sure about trucks though. They have a sound business plan, but are keeping it rather hush-hush

[kylefossett]

enr3870 said:

One of the companies, the owner is a multi-billionaire and owns his own marine company and would probably have the two companies working together. Not sure about trucks though. They have a sound business plan, but are keeping it rather hush-hush

so then that company is washington marine group and will be an extension of southern rail?

[NMcKay]

WMG owns 5 intermodal vessels.

Carrier Princess
Princess Superior
Seaspan Doris
Seaspan Greg
Island Spirit (i think thats what its called now)

[kylefossett]

like i have previously mentioned washington marine group has been looking into using a spirit class(minus all the bells and whistles for the customer(no longer called passengers by bc ferries)) and making it a truck ferry.

[Political Incorrectness]

like BCF is going to allow it otherwise that would hurt BCF route 1 and that can not happen otherwise there would be vessel shortage

[CN2972South]

cascade said:

So for WMG to get a hold of the E&N rail network on the island - put some investment into it - they how control - or will control the container business - which is how most if not all the goods will be send. As for moving containers from Vancouver across to the Island - they load them onto Rail cars and the then onto there own RORO - rail vessels.


So I guess it does make sense for the WMG to look at and try acquire the rail network on the Island. The rest of BC is controlled by CP - isn't it?

The plan, as far as I know is to bring container ships into Port Alberni, load them to railcars and run barges 24/7 from Nanaimo to the mainland. A big shipping company is looking at it right now so it's more than just wishful thinking.

The other railways in BC are:
CN, CP, BNSF, Kelowna Pacific, Okanagan Valley Railway, Grand Forks Railway, International Rail Reload Systems, Southern Railway of BC, and the Englewood Railway

[BrianWilliams]

Tyler:

"The other railways in BC are: ..."

Isn't strange (though accurate) not to have BC Rail in your list! Cascade suggested "The rest of BC is controlled by CP - isn't it? " I'd say CN is expanding, while CP is shrinking.

Maybe before the CPR closures of the 1970-80 period, southern BC was CPR territory. Today, there are no CP rails west of Castlegar (Robson) and Trail (Warfield) on the old KVR/CW southern route to the coast.

CP has concentrated on three strategies in BC:

1) Massive improvements to the mainline with the 10-mile MacDonald Tunnel; Tappen Hill re-alignment; traffic-sharing with CN west of Kamloops.

2) Capacity increases on the Sparwood-Golden coal line.

3) High-volume movements through Kingsgate with Union Pacific.

Otherwise, CN has been the expanding operator in BC, notably with their "lease" of BC Rail.

[hergfest]

Why would they bring container ships into Port Alberni then barge them over to the mainland? Seems like a waste of time/money when the ships can unload in Vancouver.

[NMcKay]

theres a rumor floating around about WMG moving to Duke Point, they have some land purchased there or something like that.

[kylefossett]

ferrymaniac101 said:

like BCF is going to allow it otherwise that would hurt BCF route 1 and that can not happen otherwise there would be vessel shortage

they would actually be building their own ship based on the plans for a spirit. should have mentioned that part earlier

[NMcKay]

BCF owns Deas Pacific Marine (i think still) they can get repairs done there

[BrianWilliams]

Given BC Ferries' clout - number of vessels and total tonnage - it's unlikely that any private yard owner in BC would not give BCF priority and best prices for refits, rebuilds, and (as we saw with Danger Bay *oops* Oak Bay) speedy access for emergency repairs.

This is a pretty small marine community compared to NW Europe. BC Ferries is the Big Kahuna amongst the barge and fishing fleets here.

BCF always depended on private yards for construction, alterations and maintenance, notably Vickers-Yarrow (later VMD) in Esquimalt; and the venerable Burrard Shipyard in North Vancouver.

VMD and Burrard are closed now, but others have grown to take their place. I don't think Washington Marine is a threat to BCF. WMG's investment in yards large enough to handle BCF vessels is a good thing.

[BrianWilliams]

Hmm.

This is not an easy subject to debate.

In BCF's first 20 years (1960-1980) carrying trucks to/from Vancouver Island was an obvious benefit. Low rates and frequent sailings made Vancouver Island's people almost equal to mainland folks in purchasing power.

All British Columbians subsidized our short marine highway to Nanaimo and Victoria, and the Island has flourished.

It is time for a re-assessment. BC Ferries did the job; now, we are at capacity, at least from April to October.

Should we discourage truck traffic? It is easy: raise the BCF rates to allow barge services to make money.

Or: run our BCF vessels on night freight-only sailings. We have the ships, idle from midnight to 6 am.

Whaddya think?

[NMcKay]

The 3 Main Yards i know of are: Victoria Shipyards (WMG), Vancouver Shipyards (WMG) and Allied Shipyards (Private)

[harbourlynx]

[glow=red,2,300]I think stay the same as today.[/glow] ;D

[Quinsam]

cascade said:

Thanks - Delta Port. In my day it was called "Roberts Bank Super Port". The only thing going out to it was rail cars full of coal.

I still call it a superport, and some other people do too, but why would Iona island be a traffic problem for a new route from YVR to Duke Point? Maybe a fastcat ideal route.

[Quinsam]

cascade said:

Thanks - Delta Port. In my day it was called "Roberts Bank Super Port". The only thing going out to it was rail cars full of coal.

I still call it a superport, and some other people do too, but why would Iona island be a traffic problem for a new route from YVR to Duke Point? Maybe a fastcat ideal route.

[BrianWilliams]

" ...why would Iona Island be a traffic problem for a new route from YVR to Duke Point?"

35 years after its first proposal, Iona is now stranded by the commuter crawl from Surrey-Delta-Langley to Vancouver city.

The Arthur Laing Bridge was built in 1974 as a dedicated airport access, with no connection to local roads in Richmond (correctly, I believe).

15 years later, the Laing bridge was connected to Bridgeport and No 2 Roads -- it immediately became choked with commuters, as it is today.

An Iona Terminal makes sense, but it is now trapped in the heaviest commuter traffic in Greater Vancouver. Getting to this terminal would be a nightmare. Too bad.

[Mike C]

Iona Island, eh? That is a problem. They would either:
A) Build a 2km long causeway like Tsawwassen; or
B) Dig out the ground underneith the proposed berths.

For the traffic problem, I say that they (BC Ferries as well as Translink) build a seperate exit off the Arthur Lang to the road that leads to Iona Island and make that road 4 lanes wide, to the road that leads to the regional park, then build an intersection. Then, perhaps build the tolls right before the enterance to the causeway. Then have all traffic line up along the causeway, that being not very wide.

Also, isn't Iona Island a regional park? So they should also consult GVRD, so that they can gain permission to hostiley take over their quaint little park, and turn it into a massive ferry terminal.