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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 11, 2005 17:46:21 GMT -8
Hey Engineer: If you want to have your ships insured, then you have to play whatever game the insurance company asks you to play.
If you don't want to do what the "office worker" says, then don't buy insurance. Then when your ship has an accident, people will sue your ass off, take your house, take your life savings, etc.
Sorry to rant back at you, but if you want to run a passenger & vehicle shipping company that serves the general public and uses public waterways, than you are going to be in a liabliity-risk environment, and so your simple ship is now a business.....that has to play by business rules.
Now, if you want to find a different insurer, who doesn't care about things like run-off-zones, go ahead....
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Post by BrianWilliams on Jul 11, 2005 18:37:59 GMT -8
To Cascade:
Your insight with Lloyd's is very useful. As the premier insurer in the world, the Lloyd's syndicate surely knows its business (except for that fiasco in the early 1980's, from which they have learned).
For sure, Lloyd's must consider BCF's overall loss record. For tonnage and passenger-miles in 40+ years, we must be a good risk.
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Post by cascade on Jul 12, 2005 7:19:29 GMT -8
Brian,
What I picked up on the floor - was two things - with regard to the Oak Bay -
1. Age of Fleet - and mid-life up grades ect.... They don't like that. On normal commercial Marine fleets - like Handymax - Tanker ect.... anything over 20 years - they charge a massive premium due to it's age - as more things can go wrong.
2. Run Off Zone's - there is two parts to this. First one is the terminals - berthing. They have a ram system which can stop a vessel even at speed (slow speed I may add) which doesn't cause any major damage to the overall structure of the vessel or terminal. Very much like what you have on new cars. The bumper is on a shock of some sort.
The second and cheaper option is run off zones - where the vessel can be beached ect... They are in the Terminal plans which are public - but as I have said in the past these have been leased or licensed to fee paying business - for how long not sure nor the amount BCFS are receiving.
I'll ask when I am on the floor this Wednesday - but I think the run off zone will be the cheaper option. It therefore depends on what David Hahn and his board do or think. Remember they can move the cover to the New York market, if they want. A lot of the major Bank's are active in the Insurance market these days - and with less damage claims - it looks very interesting in collecting the premiums - but wait until a major payout is required???
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Post by Engineer on Jul 12, 2005 8:09:33 GMT -8
Hey Engineer: If you want to have your ships insured, then you have to play whatever game the insurance company asks you to play. If you don't want to do what the "office worker" says, then don't buy insurance. Then when your ship has an accident, people will sue your ass off, take your house, take your life savings, etc. Sorry to rant back at you, but if you want to run a passenger & vehicle shipping company that serves the general public and uses public waterways, than you are going to be in a liabliity-risk environment, and so your simple ship is now a business.....that has to play by business rules. Now, if you want to find a different insurer, who doesn't care about things like run-off-zones, go ahead.... We who run the ships listen to all the big headed office workers who think the ships can not run with out there input. sorry to say but the ships will still sail evn if the office gets blown off the face of the earth. sounds like your just another office worker blowing his horn lol Me' I am just doing my job, making the ships sail every day......... |
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 12, 2005 17:07:11 GMT -8
......yeah, but how will you get paid ?
this is a friendly discussion, and I'm having fun doing some role playing here.....and it's interesting to see how we have each taken the classic position of either operations or administration. I think these role differences-of-opinion happen in most industries.
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Post by Engineer on Jul 13, 2005 4:56:50 GMT -8
Well after 26 years of watching the office try to run the ships, its getting to really be ridiculous.
The ships would sail way more efficiently and be more dependable if the head office just closed its doors and left the ships crew to make the correct decisions.
But you know as well as me that will never happen
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Post by cascade on Jul 13, 2005 6:11:38 GMT -8
Looks like they (Lloyd's) will push for some sort of deal on run off zones. They could have had a major claim on there hands - as anyone (Thank God didn't ) died in the little problem at HB with the Oak Bay.
These other small problems - as reported on the forum have also got them a little worried. Age of the fleet is working against them right now. The Vancouver agent for Lloyd's is doing a good job - working it seems for BC Ferries. It is well know about the program for replacement vessels. This in turn will ease fears of possible other problems, but this spate of running problems that BCFS is having - have not worked to there advantage currently.
So in re-cap - / some sort of deal on run off zones would most likely be agreed, but not just for HB but the other 4 major terminals.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 13, 2005 6:44:17 GMT -8
Engineer:
- So if head office closes, then who on the crews will do the financing arrangements for new ships? Will this task be rotated amongst the crew? Who will decide pay rates during the next collective agreement session? Who will decide on tarriff structure and who will work on creating new revenue streams?
Tell me, how will you organize and run the entire enterprise?
Sounds like Marx. Sounds like Lord of the Flies scenario. Sounds like you need head office after all....
(just role playing)
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Post by Engineer on Jul 13, 2005 7:30:49 GMT -8
Ok let me decide what pay raise I get lol lol
Ok I will give you a token, you can have the head office to write the cheques, buy new boats etc etc
But keep their noses out of the daily running of the ships ...............
We would all be better off
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 13, 2005 17:58:07 GMT -8
.......Engineer: can I get free food in the ship's cafeteria too?
just kidding.
I get your point: Admin has it's job, and operations have it's job. They both have to co-exist, and problems occur when one moves onto the other's turf and acts like an expert in someone else's department.
I think that's why Harbourlynx has done good by having Mr. McKay (senior) as general manager....because he knows ships.
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Post by cascade on Jul 15, 2005 7:25:04 GMT -8
Word here - there is problems on settlement for the smaller boat owners at HB - anything on / in the local papers about this?
BC Ferries - a part from there own spin - Press releases - no one has been paid off - cleared. Why ? or it is not been recorded here at Lloyd's - maybe BCFS will pay for everything without using - calling on there cover?
Hence let's play hardball with the little guy.
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Post by Ian on Jul 15, 2005 12:53:30 GMT -8
Intresting fact, the bowen queen several years ago took out a marina in snug cove and the news never reported it. Several months either before or after it grounded itself on piers island of swartz bay.
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Post by Balfour on Jul 15, 2005 13:13:24 GMT -8
I think that was the Mayne Queen actually.
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Post by Curtis on Jul 15, 2005 13:47:23 GMT -8
Both of those were the Mayne
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Koastal Karl
Voyager 
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Jul 15, 2005 22:04:57 GMT -8
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Post by QoA on Jul 16, 2005 7:46:42 GMT -8
Well, got back from vacation yesterday, and found a BCF letter in my mailbox- $750 worth of ferry certificates! I was on THE sailing. Not bad for 9 hours of doing nothing and eating free caf food! I took many photos, but none are very spectacular compared to those taken off the ship. It was quite an experience though.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 16, 2005 8:27:38 GMT -8
What can the certificates be used for? Just on-board items, or can they be used for vehicle fare?
Maybe they can be cashed in for a date with Deborah Dykes Marshall ?
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Post by Curtis on Jul 16, 2005 8:37:08 GMT -8
I think they can be used for all BC Ferries areas where you have to pay...Gift Shop, Cafeteria, Toll booth, Etc. Etc.
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Post by NMcKay on Jul 16, 2005 9:04:33 GMT -8
wow...im sorta glad that i wasn;t on the boat.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 16, 2005 9:15:20 GMT -8
If I had a free day, nothing better to do.....I would have like to be on the Oaky on the crash-day. That's only because in hindsight I know how it all turned out.
I would have scored some gift certificates, and would have some neat memories and stories to tell.
I would equate this with the Domino's Pizza delivery guy being 2 minutes late....so you score a discount, in exchange for some inconvenience.
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Post by NMcKay on Jul 16, 2005 9:18:23 GMT -8
yeah. but it doesn;t always work that way.
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Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Jul 16, 2005 21:46:40 GMT -8
Yes gift certificates can be used for all BC Ferries services whether it's for fares, food, gift shops, anything on the ferries! I still have one left over from Christmas I have to use up! I got a whole bunch for Christmas and I am on my last one now!
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Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Jul 16, 2005 21:49:30 GMT -8
ah Flugel Horn likes Deborah Marshall! Yeah I bet you would love that! Anyone ever notice any hotties on the ferries?? I mean cute ferry employees! I have seen quite a few young hotties on there! Oh man, I guess it aint just WestJet who has all the hotties! BC Ferries has some too!
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Post by Balfour on Jul 16, 2005 21:53:23 GMT -8
I need to travel out of Tsawassen more often!
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Doug
Voyager
Lurking within...the car deck.
Posts: 2,213
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Post by Doug on Jul 16, 2005 23:48:41 GMT -8
Well, got back from vacation yesterday, and found a BCF letter in my mailbox- $750 worth of ferry certificates! I was on THE sailing. Not bad for 9 hours of doing nothing and eating free caf food! I took many photos, but none are very spectacular compared to those taken off the ship. It was quite an experience though. What did they tell you over the PA? |
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