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Post by zman on Aug 16, 2007 1:06:21 GMT -8
I will get some pics up soon that show how little space the steels have at Keystone Harbor on low tide...I had to wait through two sailings on 8/11 morning to get onboard with my car. It would be nice to have bigger capacity vessels, but there is NO room to fit them in during lower tides. That is the first time that I have been up at Keystone during a low tide, and it is incredible how little space there is between the shore and the boat! I would think that the steels are the only vessels that can go full speed until they enter the harbor before slowing. The currents were very visible. It looks like an incredible challenge, and longer vessels would be moved around in the currents too much to get them into Keystone Harbor.
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Post by EGfleet on Aug 16, 2007 7:37:56 GMT -8
Looks like it was far more than a rumor on the Illahee...
Cracked ferry's future in doubt
A tube in the aged Illahee's stern will be a challenge to fix, if it can be fixed at all.
By Scott North and Kaitlin Manry, Herald Writers
A crack in a key part of one of the state's oldest ferries has engineers scrambling for a solution, but not promising a repair.
If their plan doesn't work out, the future of the 80-year-old Illahee is uncertain.
The 20-inch crack in the cast-iron stern tube of the Illahee can't be closed by welding, so ferry officials are working with a Seattle shipyard, trying to create a replacement from a large pipe, Marta Coursey, communications director for Washington State Ferries, said Wednesday.
It's a 21st century attempt to fabricate a part that was made in 1927.
Although ferry officials hope the Illahee repair will be successful, there are no guarantees, Coursey said.
The same holds true for her sister ferry, the Quinault, which also is undergoing dry dock repairs and inspections mandated by the Coast Guard.
"They are a work in progress," she said of the two Steel Electric-class vessels.
The stern tube is a pipe that contains the ferry's propeller shaft where it runs through the hull.
The crack in the Illahee was discovered July 29 when the vessel was making its first voyage after having earlier been placed in dry dock to undergo Coast Guard-mandated work. That included removal of concrete along the stern tube that previously prevented close inspection of the vessel's riveted steel hull.
The stern tube crack was big enough to allow water to stream in at a rate of five gallons per minute. Ferry officials pulled the Illahee from service the same day.
Langley resident Sue Frause was on board the Illahee on July 29 when the crack was discovered. Frause said she didn't realize anything was wrong with the ferry until later in the day when she received an e-mail alert that it had been pulled out of service.
"Obviously it was in the process of 'cracking' while I was on board!" she said. "I'm sure none of the passengers was aware of the issue, but it was somewhat startling to find out what transpired."
Engineers initially believed the crack may have been caused by stress during dry dock. A close inspection found more corrosion of the stern tube than anticipated, Coursey said. The crack's cause remains under investigation.
Work on the Illahee is expected to take weeks. With the Quinault also in dry dock, that means the state is down to just two operating Steel Electric boats.
The Klickitat and the Nisqually are both being used on the route between Keystone on Whidbey Island and Port Townsend on the Olympic Peninsula. The Steel Electric-class ferries are the only boats in the state's 28-vessel fleet capable of using those terminals.
The Coast Guard earlier ordered the Nisqually to undergo mandatory inspection and repairs, but this week it approved using the boat on the Keystone-Port Townsend run until Sept. 9, after the end of the summer tourist season.
The Coast Guard also took the unprecedented step of ordering ferry officials to inspect the Nisqually every four hours to make sure everything works properly, said Lt. Cdr. Todd Howard, chief of domestic vessel inspection for the Coast Guard in Seattle .
"We're not asking them. We're telling them," he said. "If they want to maintain the Nisqually on that route, they have to do this. That's what it comes down to."
The Coast Guard also plans to conduct weekly internal structural exams to try to make sure that the ferry is safe. The Coast Guard usually conducts that type of exam every 2 years on state ferries, Howard said.
The Coast Guard on June 26 said ongoing problems with leaking hulls were "serious in nature" and ordered the state to step up maintenance on the rusting hulls. The Steel Electrics have been the focus of increased scrutiny since the Klickitat was pulled from service in March with a 6-inch crack in the hull.
The Coast Guard is monitoring Washington State Ferries' attempts to replace the Illahee's damaged stern tube.
Workers at Todd Shipyards in Seattle are trying to make a custom stern tube out of a 17-foot long steel pipe, Howard said.
"It's an extremely heavy duty piece of pipe," he said. "In the end, it will be a much superior piece, but also at a steeper price."
After the crack was discovered, the Coast Guard ordered an "extraordinary" amount of inspection on the Quinault, which had already been taken out of service for a maintenance check, Howard said.
"Because of the problems the Illahee has brought to light, they are taking a whole lot more extra precautions in the Quinault," he said.
Workers have removed the Quinault's propeller and pulled the shaft out of the stern tube in order to get a better look inside. So far, that boat's stern tube looks good, but workers have noticed some places where the vessel's hull has corroded so much that it must be replaced, Howard said.
The state this year already has spent $1.5 million on dry docking, inspections and repairs of its four oldest ferries, Coursey said.
The work necessary to bring the Illahee into compliance with regulations is significant. In addition to the problems with the stern tube, a separate crack was found in the Illahee's hull, Howard said.
"It is a big deal," he said. "It is a lot of work to get it repaired."
The state is now negotiating with shipbuilders to construct four new 144-car ferries, more than twice the size of the old ones. Ferry officials are hopeful the new boats will allow them to retire two Steel Electrics sometime after 2009. The new boats won't replace the Steel Electrics on the Keystone-to-Port Townsend run.
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Kam
Voyager
Posts: 926
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Post by Kam on Aug 16, 2007 11:18:36 GMT -8
I will get some pics up soon that show how little space the steels have at Keystone Harbor on low tide I have some from a trip I took in the spring: the full album is at www.broadcastwest.ca/bin/klickitat/
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Post by NMcKay on Aug 16, 2007 14:33:42 GMT -8
thats not near to the shore...thats lots of space.....on the klitsa...when she goes to deas, she goes through a narrows...and its so clost that your almost at the shore on the bridge side, and you cant see the water on the far side....THATS close.
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Post by Barnacle on Aug 16, 2007 14:51:40 GMT -8
Klitsa, Shmitsa. Go through Wasp Pass on the Elwha.
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Post by zman on Aug 16, 2007 15:32:26 GMT -8
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Post by SS San Mateo on Aug 18, 2007 22:07:49 GMT -8
From the article posted earlier on this page:
Any particular reason for the more frequent inspections on just the Nisqually and not the Klickitat as well?
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Post by SS Shasta on Aug 19, 2007 11:10:32 GMT -8
From the article posted earlier on this page: Any particular reason for the more frequent inspections on just the Nisqually and not the Klickitat as well? Would this have something to do with the concrete ballast being removed on MV Klickitat, but not yet on MV Nisqually? I think someone mentioned that MV Nisqually was to follow MV Illahee for ballast removal, but this has been delayed by the extra repair time needed for MV Illahee. Perhaps work will be completed on the Q boat before it is completed on MV Illahee?
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Post by EGfleet on Aug 19, 2007 14:15:31 GMT -8
From the article posted earlier on this page: Any particular reason for the more frequent inspections on just the Nisqually and not the Klickitat as well? Would this have something to do with the concrete ballast being removed on MV Klickitat, but not yet on MV Nisqually? I think someone mentioned that MV Nisqually was to follow MV Illahee for ballast removal, but this has been delayed by the extra repair time needed for MV Illahee. Perhaps work will be completed on the Q boat before it is completed on MV Illahee? It's increasingly looking like the whole class is in serious trouble: Leaky ferry stayed in serviceBy Scott North and Kaitlin Manry, Herald Writers A Washington State Ferries engineer who for nearly two decades has been trusted to keep one of the state's oldest boats in operation says ferry officials aren't adequately addressing problems with the aging vessel. Mike Marston, who for more than 17 years has been a chief engineer on the ferry Klickitat, said state officials are pushing the 80-year-old ferry into service it simply no longer can handle. Worse, the 28-year veteran of the ferry system said, those in authority aren't listening to the boat or to the people in the best position to determine her ability to continue to safely carry passengers and vehicles across Puget Sound. In March, ferry officials kept the Klickitat in service between Whidbey Island and Port Townsend for more than two days after Marston discovered a 6-inch crack in the ferry's riveted steel hull. Contrary to what ferry officials said at the time, logbook entries show no immediate attempt was made to repair the leaking crack. Built in 1927, the Klickitat has been leaking for years. Marston said he's found all but one of the leaks in the ship in the past decade. The defect discovered in March was the worst he'd seen. It was the type the engineer believes could have burst and allowed water to rush into the hull. Its location was an added concern, because there was no immediate way to determine whether it extended into more than one water-tight space in the hull. The Klickitat, like the state's other three Steel Electric-class ferries, does not meet federal safety requirements in place since the 1950s. It is not rated as capable of remaining afloat if more than one water-tight compartment floods. Vessels that don't meet that standard are at greater risk of sinking or capsizing. Marston said that when he found the crack about 1 a.m. on March 10, he was told by ferry officials the Klickitat would immediately be pulled from service. He was surprised when he showed up for work at his next shift, more than a dozen hours later, and learned the vessel had been returned to service. "I don't think it was prudent. We did watch it, and it didn't fail, so the state got away with it," Marston said. "They took a risk with the safety of the vessel and I assume somebody thought it was an acceptable risk." The Klickitat was allowed to operate with a crack in the hull under a plan that was approved by the Coast Guard and carefully implemented by ferry crews, Mike Anderson, executive director of the state ferry system, said Friday. The crack was inspected every two hours and at no time was anyone's safety placed at risk, he said. If Marston believed otherwise, he could have ordered the vessel out of service, Anderson said. That's news to the engineer. It is his understanding that only the vessel owner - in this case state ferry officials - can order service stopped. State ferry policy indicates that ferry chief engineers are to advise the operations center if a vessel "is to be removed from service" but don't specify that it is the engineer's decision. "There is no way I have that authority," Marston said. "If they all of a sudden want to grant me that authority, great. I've been working for them 28 years and I've never had that authority." A Coast Guard inspector ordered the Klickitat out of service the afternoon of March 12, about 60 hours after Marston found the hull crack. That was the first opportunity the inspector had to make an in-person visit. Lt. Cdr. Todd Howard stands by the Coast Guard's handling of the incident. Howard, chief of domestic vessel inspection for the Coast Guard in Seattle, wasn't personally involved in the response, but said it "sounds proper." Howard said his inspectors were promptly informed of the crack in the Klickitat by ferry officials. They were told that water was only seeping in when the vessel was being unloaded, not while it was underway. "Usually when you're on a vessel and you think about a crack in its hulls, you see a lot of water," Howard said. Marston has photographs of the crack while the Klickitat was underway and carrying passengers. When examined closely, the photographs show fine streams of water entering the hull. When the vessel was taken to a shipyard, the crack was found to have extended 3 inches into the watertight bulkhead. A section of the corroded hull plating had to be cut out and replaced. The repair cost the ferry system $50,000. The Klickitat's crack was the first in a series of leaks and other mechanical problems to plague the state's four oldest ferries this year. The Coast Guard has responded by ordering stepped-up inspections and repairs for all of the Steel Electric boats. Last week, ferry officials acknowledged that the future is uncertain for two other Steel Electric ferries, the Illahee and Quinault, both of which are now in dry dock.If a leak ripped open on the Klickitat today, it would be handled differently by the Coast Guard than it was in March, Howard said. "If the Klickitat starts showing such a thing today we would not" allow her to keep operating, he said. "We've already upped all the Steel Electrics' inspections and reduced the time period between them. Washington State Ferries people are looking at them more closely." Ferries chief Anderson said he is committed to keeping the state's ferries safe, including the Steel Electrics. "I would go ride them today," he said. The state is having problems with the Steel Electrics because they are old, and the ferry system hasn't been spending money on their preservation, Marston said. The engineer said they need to be retired - and soon. "The issue's been raised," Marston said. "It has been raised by the boats."
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Post by Brassman on Aug 21, 2007 17:05:15 GMT -8
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Post by Brassman on Aug 21, 2007 17:19:56 GMT -8
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Post by EGfleet on Aug 22, 2007 19:21:25 GMT -8
Looks like we'll be down to one Steel Electric soon:
One-boat Port Townsend ferry runs coming early because of ailing vessels
By Jeff Chew, Peninsula Daily News
PORT TOWNSEND - Ferry travelers crossing between Port Townsend and Keystone can expect an earlier-than-normal one-boat run after Sept. 9 - 20 days early, said Mike Anderson, Washington State Ferries executive director.
He and the new state Secretary of Transportation, Paula Hammond spoke with a group on Tuesday about a plan to create smaller ferries specifically for the Port Townsend-Keystone run.
Anderson said that Coast Guard inspectors declined to approve another extension for the ferry Nisqually, which was ordered to have its concrete in the hull removed for closer inspections.
That means that the one-boat winter run between Port Townsend and Keystone on Whidbey Island, which would ordinarily begin on Sept. 29, will begin early.
"As you can see, we're doing a bit of a balancing act to improve the vessels and keep them safe," Anderson told members of the Port Townsend-Keystone Ferry Route Partnership Group during a meeting in Port Townsend .
Plans for small ferries Anderson and Hammond addressed the group on Monday in a step toward designing new ferries to each carry 100 vehicles or less for the route.
State Ferries officials this year abandoned plans to build larger terminals in Port Townsend and Whidbey Island to equip the route with large ferries that could hold up to 144 vehicles.
Public outcry pleading for smaller ferries that run more frequently stymied the plan, leading to a serious look at smaller ferries that delayed retirement of the aging Steel Electrics, each of which holds about 65 vehicles.
Limiting the size of the ferries would allow the small Keystone terminal to remain at its present location across Admiralty Inlet, near Coupeville on Whidbey Island.
After the smaller ferries are designed, it will be up to the state Legislature to approve funding to build the first new ferry, which Anderson said could take 18 months.
The other ferries would follow, possibly taking between nine and 12 months each to build.
"We're trying to figure out how to keep everything afloat - literally," Hammond said.
The ferries shuttle passengers daily between Port Townsend and Keystone Harbor on Whidbey Island, and in the San Juan Islands.
No replacements Anderson said he has searched the U.S. and Canada's British Columbia Ferries system for a backup ferry in the event all Steel Electrics fail, but has found nothing.
Anderson said the good news was that two-ferry operation would continue throughout the weekend of the annual Wooden Boat Festival on Sept 7-9 at Hudson Point. It is Port Townsend's biggest event of the year.
The partnership group is assisting the ferry system in coming up with a design plan that will best suit both sides of the Admiralty Inlet ferry run, which carried 767,000 passengers last year.
J.D. Dwyer, Coast Guard inspection division chief, last month pointed out to state ferries officials that the hull integrity in the four ferries now serving the run has been compromised over the past year.
Age and corrosion are to blame.
"Even on top of those inspections, these incidents have occurred," Anderson said. "The Coast Guard is paying attention to that."
The four aged ferries - Klickitat, Quinault, Illahee and Nisqually - are the oldest ferries in operation on saltwater in the nation.
The Coast Guard, which is the responsible agency for certifying the vessels as seaworthy, is focused on trying to comply with tighter maintenance and inspection regulations.
Plagued with cracks and holes, corrosion and rust from constant salt-water contact over so many years, the Steel Electric ferries continue to be recertified by the Coast Guard, even though they do not come up to the more stringent maintenance and inspection measures that recently have been required of other ferries.
Some issues that Anderson recapped to the group:
# The Illahee recently developed a 20-inch crack in the cast-iron stern tube. The crack can't be welded and so a part is under construction.
# A crack found in the Klickitat's hull in March was just one of six breaches or holes discovered over the past 10 years, according to ferry system maintenance records.
Emergency repairs have sidelined the Klickitat 11 times since 1997. As far back as 2000, tests found places where rust thinned the Klickitat's hull up to 70 percent.
# Crews scraping paint off the Quinault's hull last month opened a quarter-sized hole below the waterline.
When the Nisqually is taken out of service on Sept. 9, only the Klickitat will run between Port Townsend and Keystone Harbor.
"The Quinault and the Illahee will not be ready to operate at that point," Anderson said of both vessels now under repairs at Todd Pacific Shipyards in Seattle.
Already, the Coast Guard has granted two two-week extensions for the Nisqually.
"We have already heard through our staff that they are not interest in extending it any further," Anderson said. "You can only go to the well so many times."
The Nisqually is also the only Steel Electric that has not developed a leak so far, Anderson said.
Anderson said that, so far, the state has allocated $347 million for new vessels, $67 million of which has already gone to new propulsion systems.
Once a design and financial plan is established, the state Legislature ultimately will decide where he money goes, said Hammond, adding that she has concerns about adequate funding for new vessels.
Port Townsend Deputy Mayor Michelle Sandoval and Coupeville Mayor Nancy Conard, both group members, both urged state ferries officials to keep the communities well informed all along the way to new ferry designs.
By doing this, there would be less dissension in Port Townsend to plans, Sandoval said.
They urged ferries officials to be transparent in their dealings with the public.
John White, state ferries' director of engineering, told the group that the system is expected to present a ferry design proposal by the end of 2008.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Aug 22, 2007 21:16:38 GMT -8
If they want a suggestion, talk to BCFS and ask about the Queen of Cumberland and tell them not to use Rolls Royce Engines and make sure they can do 15 knot service speed.
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Post by SS San Mateo on Aug 23, 2007 8:50:46 GMT -8
Even if BC Ferries had something available, WSF would have to get a waiver to the Jones Act. A permanent waiver would be almost impossible and who knows how long a temporary waiver would last.
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Post by EGfleet on Aug 23, 2007 9:18:53 GMT -8
Looks like the troubles are getting worse...now the Quinault is going to be out longer....
Crack found on a second ferry
Like its sister ship, the Quinault, which serves the Keystone-Port Townsend route, was pulled because of a crack in a crucial part.
By Scott North Herald Writer
The state's oldest ferries just can't seem to catch a break.
Close inspection of the 1927-vintage Quinault shows it, too, needs replacement of key parts in its propulsion system, said Washington State Ferries spokeswoman Marta Coursey on Wednesday.
The problems are with the stern tubes, the cast-iron pipes that contain the ferry's propeller shafts where they run through the hull.
Meanwhile, the ferry Rhododendron, built in 1947, was pulled from service Wednesday morning after ferry engineers discovered about a dozen holes and cracks in the hull above the waterline. The defects are believed to be the result of corrosion from exposure to rain and sea spray, Coursey said.
It is unclear when the Rhododendron will resume its route. It runs between Tacoma and Vashon Island. Although 20 years younger than the Quinault and the state's other Steel Electric-class ferries, the Rhododendron also does not meet federal safety standards for hull design that have been in effect since the mid-1950s.
The Quinault has been in dry dock undergoing inspection and maintenance ordered by the Coast Guard. Its stern tubes were inspected after a 20-inch crack developed in a stern tube on the Quinault's sister ferry, the Illahee. The Illahee's crack allowed water to stream into the hull at a rate of five gallons per minute.
Crews at Todd Shipyards in Seattle are attempting to fabricate two new stern tubes for the Illahee. They are hopeful the work will meet Coast Guard approval and the vessel can return to service by mid-September, Coursey said.
Close inspection of the Quinault's stern tubes on Friday found them to be too corroded for continued use, Coursey said.
Ferry officials are hopeful new tubes can be fabricated for the Quinault and the vessel can be cleared to return to service by Nov. 12.
"They are not complete in their work yet," Coursey said.
Meanwhile, the state is down to two operating Steel Electric ferries. The Klickitat and the Nisqually are both being used on the route between Keystone on Whidbey Island and Port Townsend on the Quimper Peninsula. The Steel Electric ferries are the only boats in the state's 28-vessel fleet capable of using those terminals.
The Coast Guard has ordered the Nisqually into mandatory inspection and repairs after Sept. 9, the end of the summer tourist season. Until then, it has ordered unprecedented inspections of the vessel, including checks by ferry crews every four hours and weekly internal structural exams by Coast Guard inspectors.
The Coast Guard on June 26 said ongoing problems with leaking hulls were "serious in nature" and ordered the state to step up maintenance. The Steel Electrics have been the focus of increased scrutiny since the Klickitat was pulled from service in March with a 6-inch crack in the hull.
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Post by SS San Mateo on Aug 23, 2007 9:48:14 GMT -8
Looks like the Quinault may be history as well... Crack found on a second ferrywww.heraldnet.com/article/20070823/NEWS01/108230038Like its sister ship, the Quinault, which serves the Keystone-Port Townsend route, was pulled because of a crack in a crucial part. By Scott North Herald Writer The state's oldest ferries just can't seem to catch a break. Close inspection of the 1927-vintage Quinault shows it, too, needs replacement of key parts in its propulsion system, said Washington State Ferries spokeswoman Marta Coursey on Wednesday. The problems are with the stern tubes, the cast-iron pipes that contain the ferry's propeller shafts where they run through the hull. Meanwhile, the ferry Rhododendron, built in 1947, was pulled from service Wednesday morning after ferry engineers discovered about a dozen holes and cracks in the hull above the waterline. The defects are believed to be the result of corrosion from exposure to rain and sea spray, Coursey said. It is unclear when the Rhododendron will resume its route. It runs between Tacoma and Vashon Island. Although 20 years younger than the Quinault and the state's other Steel Electric-class ferries, the Rhododendron also does not meet federal safety standards for hull design that have been in effect since the mid-1950s. The Quinault has been in dry dock undergoing inspection and maintenance ordered by the Coast Guard. Its stern tubes were inspected after a 20-inch crack developed in a stern tube on the Quinault's sister ferry, the Illahee. The Illahee's crack allowed water to stream into the hull at a rate of five gallons per minute. Crews at Todd Shipyards in Seattle are attempting to fabricate two new stern tubes for the Illahee. They are hopeful the work will meet Coast Guard approval and the vessel can return to service by mid-September, Coursey said. Close inspection of the Quinault's stern tubes on Friday found them to be too corroded for continued use, Coursey said. Ferry officials are hopeful new tubes can be fabricated for the Quinault and the vessel can be cleared to return to service by Nov. 12. "They are not complete in their work yet," Coursey said. Meanwhile, the state is down to two operating Steel Electric ferries. The Klickitat and the Nisqually are both being used on the route between Keystone on Whidbey Island and Port Townsend on the Quimper Peninsula. The Steel Electric ferries are the only boats in the state's 28-vessel fleet capable of using those terminals. The Coast Guard has ordered the Nisqually into mandatory inspection and repairs after Sept. 9, the end of the summer tourist season. Until then, it has ordered unprecedented inspections of the vessel, including checks by ferry crews every four hours and weekly internal structural exams by Coast Guard inspectors. The Coast Guard on June 26 said ongoing problems with leaking hulls were "serious in nature" and ordered the state to step up maintenance. The Steel Electrics have been the focus of increased scrutiny since the Klickitat was pulled from service in March with a 6-inch crack in the hull. Reporter Scott North: 425-339-3431 or north@heraldnet.com.
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Post by BreannaF on Aug 23, 2007 11:00:20 GMT -8
I suppose it's too late to start in again with that two-year study about what to do about this problem that we were discussing a couple of pages ago.........
You know, if Washington State Ferry Museums is going to operate the "nation's largest salt-water ferry museum system", then certainly the curators are going to need to budget enough funds for preservation of the exhibits.
Actually, it's pretty amazing that these artifacts have been preserved so well for so long (a testament to the crews!), especially as these specimens of early 20th century water travel in Puget Sound are being used so frequently as an interactive exhibit by museum patrons.
It is an honorable feat that the citizens of Port Townsend have risked so much inconvenience to be granted their wish for a ferry museum that has remained unchanged for most of a century, simply to have a backdrop that matches their historic downtown area. I'm certain that this has meant a lot to them, considering that the same state DOT agency had so unfairly decided to pave the roads that provide the land access to their town on that fateful day so many years ago. Does the Washington legislature have no mercy for historic preservation?
Clearly, a decision not to take action to modernize the ferry museum system has been made. The citizens of Port Townsend are happy with the status quo. To that end, I might make this suggestion. If the historical preservation project is expected to take a long time, as certainly it will, it would be prudent to find some replacement vessels. It is just a matter of changing the museum exhibit.
Certainly, some museum in Washington must have some other vessels in-house to use as replacement vessels for their popular interactive exhibit. For example, a temporary exhibit on the Puget Sound water travel of the native Chinook peoples may be appropriate. I'm sure the townsfolk would be willing to volunteer in droves to ferry passengers back and forth to and from Keystone in authentic native canoes and other similar vessels. Just look at the economic benefit from tourism that such an exhibit would bring!
And if that were to occur, then the historic Steel-Electrics, once they have endured yet another historical preservation, would seem downright modern to the traveling public. Look! A win-win situation for all.
I'm just so glad that the Washington Legislature and managers from Washington State Ferry Museums has their planning so well thought out!
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Post by Barnacle on Aug 23, 2007 12:28:29 GMT -8
BryanK-- Thanks, I needed that. Port Townsend reportedly doesn't want any changes made (though rumor has it these demands didn't surface until an outside agitation group called "Ferry Users For Common Sense" stirred them up as to the retail loss if the crowds weren't backed up on the street), yet they want their service upgraded. The public cries out against any relocation of the Keystone Terminal, citing overinflated projections of traffic and expense. Brute truth of the matter: if The Public always got what it wanted, white folk would still be at the front of the bus, at least south of the Mason-Dixon...
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Post by SS San Mateo on Aug 24, 2007 9:59:22 GMT -8
Shipbuilder, state butt heads on safety of aging ferrieswww.komotv.com/news/9344291.htmlStory Published: Aug 23, 2007 at 6:44 PM PDT Story Updated: Aug 23, 2007 at 7:28 PM PDT By Bryan Johnson TACOMA, Wash. -- Martinac Ship Building says the state might be keeping leaky ferries afloat in order to avoid tax penalties, and the boat builder thinks this could put ferry riders at risk. The state admits the 80-something-year-old ferries needs extra maintenance and because of this, the state stepped up inspections. Those inspections found the leaks and other troubles that have been fixed. But the Tacoma shipbuilder says trying to keep the ancient ships afloat is playing with your safety. "those vessels are leaking, and they've got holes in them. And they're taking on water, in some cases, at five gallons a minute," said Jed Powell, the attorney for Martinac. "The chief engineer for the Klickitat has come forward and said they're unsafe." Martinac designed a replacement ferry nearly ten years ago and presented it to the state. The state said 'no' and the flap wound up in federal court. One of the allegations is the state sold tax depreciation rights on the old ferries to a Midwest corporation, and those tax breaks continued through 2014. Martinac believes the state is afraid of federal penalties of the boats are taken out of service. "We're exposing the state of Washington and those people who ride the ferries to a greater risk than what's necessary," said Joe Martinac, the shipyard owner. But the state claims Martinac's got it all wrong. "Absolutely false. The Washington state ferry system and the DOT would never run an unsafe boat just to save money," said Steve Reinmuth with the state ferry system. "That's just a ridiculous statement, and I think anyone who makes a statement like that should think about it again before they say something like that." And the Coast Guard says not to worry, as they regularly inspect the boats. So is the ferry flap going to become a federal case? Martinac and the state promise they'll work to avoid that. In fact, Martinac and the state have put the federal lawsuit on hold while the state works on a plan to obtain new ferries.
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Post by EGfleet on Aug 29, 2007 5:57:58 GMT -8
Up close and personal with one of the state's Steel Electric ferriesBy Jeff Chew, Peninsula Daily News PORT TOWNSEND - Few understand the need for new ferries on the Port Townsend-Keystone route better than those who maintain and run the 1920s-era Steel Electric vessels. While he said the Port Townsend ferry dock is fine, MV Klickitat Chief Engineer Andy DeGraaf describes the Keystone ferry terminal on Whidbey Island as something short of a ferry captain's nightmare. "When the wind is blowing between 30 and 40 knots in the worst weather, it's the worst dock in the system," DeGraaf said unabashedly to reporters gathered aboard the Klickitat on Tuesday. Reporters from both sides of Admiralty Inlet experienced a close-up tour of the vessel's bowels, including where the Klickitat sustained a six-inch stress crack in the hull in March. DeGraaf, who has supervised routine inspections aboard the Klickitat for 14 years and has been a part of the ferry system for 22 years, said he believes that the crack was found shortly after the vessel hit a dolphin - a cluster of pilings - at the Keystone landing dock. The dock is a new captain's disaster waiting to happen, he said, with little or no room to correct the course of the ferry. "If you don't know what you're doing, you're going to end up on the beach," DeGraaf said. He blames Keystone's inadequate landing area for damage to ferries, including hull cracks. Then there's the concern he has for replacing environmentally harmful creosote pilings with steel and concrete. "They're transferring damage from docks to boats," he said. Age of ferries Then there's the aging process. The crack found in the Klickitat's hull in March was just one of six breaches or holes discovered over the past 10 years, according to ferry system maintenance records. Emergency repairs have sidelined the Klickitat 11 times since 1997. As far back as 2000, tests found places where rust thinned the Klickitat's hull up to 70 percent. On the tour were Marta Coursey, Washington State Ferries communications manager, Mike LaCroix, senior port engineer for state ferries, and Mark Haupt, the Klickitat's staff master who serves as captain and steers the vessel to and from Port Townsend. Haupt knows well what he's standing over while navigating the 1927 Klickitat across Admiralty Inlet. "It's like an old car. Maintenance builds up and nobody drives to work in a 1927 Model T," said Haupt, who has been in his position a year and lives in Port Townsend. He has worked for the ferry system in different capacities since 1973. Knowing the harsh realities, Haupt said he still has a real love for the Klickitat, which like the other three Steel Electrics has six water-tight compartments, and is designed to operate even if one compartment floods. LaCroix said newer ferries in the system are designed to allow operations with two compartment's flooded. The vessels have two engines to ensure that if one is out the other remains. They are inside water-tight compartments. "Five minutes of terror" Mike Anderson, state ferries executive director, who attended the last meeting of the Port Townsend-Keystone Ferry Route Partnership, said several ferry captains have described the Port Townsend to Keystone run as "25 minutes of pleasure followed by five minutes of terror." Haupt just smiles when you mention that to him. "They're doing a tremendous amount of service," Haupt said of the ferries. Other recent damage to Port Townsend-Keystone Steel Electrics reported: The ferry Illahee recently developed a 20-inch crack in the cast-iron stern tube and is currently in dry dock under repair; the crews scraping paint off the Quinault's hull last month opened a quarter-sized hole below the waterline. Wrapping up the tour, LaCroix pulled from his car trunk a 30-pound, rusty three-eights-inch thick steel plate section recently cut from the Illahee, with a cocktail straw poked through a pinhole that was discovered. The plate was cut from the Illahee's steering equipment room this year and repaired, he said. The ferry Nisqually, now operating in tandem with the Klickitat, will be taken out of service after Sept. 9 to have concrete ballast removed and be inspected. That will leave only one ferry on the route. New ferries State ferries officials plan to design new Port Townsend-Keystone ferries, which would carry 100 vhecles or less, by the end of 2008. It will be up to the state Legislature to approve funding to build the first new ferry, which Anderson said could take 18 months. The Port Townsend-Keystone Ferry Route Partnership is assisting the ferry system in coming up with a design plan that will best suit both sides of the Admiralty Inlet ferry run, which carried 767,000 passengers last year. Limiting the size of the ferries allows the Keystone terminal to remain at its present location near Coupeville on Whidbey Island. Anderson said so far the state has allocated $347 million for new vessels, $67 million of which has already gone to new propulsion systems. THE NEXT MEETING of the Port Townsend-Keystone Ferry Route Partnership is at 9 a.m. Sept. 18 at the Pope Marine Building, Water and Madison streets at City Dock, Port Townsend. A public open house is scheduled at 6:30 p.m. Sept. 20 at Fort Worden Commons. Washington State Ferries officials will update the public on operations issues and the condition of the four Steel Electrics that serve the Port Townsend-Keystone run. Also discussed will be the proposed temporary remote vehicle holding sites for the ferry terminal. Link & photo: www.peninsuladailynews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070829/NEWS/708290307
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Post by SS San Mateo on Aug 31, 2007 10:22:48 GMT -8
Crew says its 'good, old boat' is still seaworthywww.heraldnet.com/article/20070829/NEWS01/108290020/0/OPINION02By Scott North, Herald Writer PORT TOWNSEND — It's been a summer of cracks, leaks and questions for Washington state's oldest ferries. The Illahee and Quinault — two 1927-vintage Steel Electric-class ferries — remain in dry dock undergoing major repairs. On Tuesday, their sister ships, the Nisqually and Klickitat, still were making regular trips from Keystone on Whidbey Island to Port Townsend on the Olympic Peninsula. That soon will change. On Sept. 10, the Nisqually is scheduled to head to a Seattle shipyard for Coast Guard- mandated inspections and work on its aging hull and propulsion system. It is the same sort of work that turned up problems that unexpectedly sidelined the Illahee and Quinault. Washington State Ferries officials say that for a while, at least, the 80-year-old Klickitat will be on her own carrying people, cars and trucks across Admiralty Inlet. They also insist she is up to the job. "I love this old boat. It is a good, old boat," Andy DeGraaf, one of four chief engineers assigned to the Klickitat's crew, said Tuesday. He's been working on the Klickitat for 14 years. The state since March has wrestled with a string of hull cracks and other problems on its Steel Electric-class boats. The latest troubles revolve around corrosion of the stern tubes, the cast-iron pipes that house the ferries' propeller shafts where they run through the hull. The vessels' stern tubes have been in saltwater since 1927, when the Steel Electrics were first launched in California's San Francisco Bay. The Coast Guard ordered closer inspection of the stern tubes after a 20-inch crack developed July 29 in a stern tube on the Illahee. The crack allowed water to stream into the hull at a rate of five gallons per minute. That stern tube, as well as its twin on the other end of the ferry, was deemed too corroded for continued use. The same problem was discovered on the Quinault. Crews at Todd Shipyards in Seattle have been attempting to fabricate a pair of new stern tubes for both vessels. Ferry officials are hopeful the work will meet Coast Guard approval and the vessels can return to service; the Illahee in mid-September, the Quinault in mid-November. This year's unexpected repairs for the Steel Electrics are expected to approach $4 million, said Marta Coursey, communications director for Washington State Ferries. That's about double what was anticipated in late June, when the state estimated the cost of addressing Coast Guard concerns about hull cracks. Some below decks at Washington State Ferries have suggested privately that recent Steel Electric problems are linked to a decision in the late 1990s to stop investing in preservation work on the old boats. The money instead was set aside to help pay for constructing new ferries — boats that are still years away and, as planned at 144 cars, too large to replace the Steel Electrics. About $3 million that would have been spent on preservation of the Steel Electrics was redirected to construction of new ferries, but that hasn't stopped needed work, Coursey said. "We are still keeping them going. We are still repairing them. It is just how the money is allocated," she said. DeGraaf and others told reporters touring the Klickitat on Tuesday that the vessel is well-maintained and seaworthy. DeGraaf disagreed with recent statements made by another Klickitat chief engineer, Mike Marston, that ferry officials took an avoidable risk when they operated the Klickitat for most of two days in March with a six-inch hull crack that was seeping water. "I had no qualms running it that way," DeGraaf said. Mike LaCroix, senior port engineer and a top maintenance official for the ferry system, said the crack was carefully monitored and did not grow during operations. It is true the Steel Electrics are aging, but the state is exercising prudence in their operation, he said. "I had my wife and two small children on the Nisqually on Sunday. I know the boats are safe," LaCroix said.
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Post by EGfleet on Aug 31, 2007 11:03:32 GMT -8
Leaks cut Keystone route to single boatBy Nathan Whalen Aug 29 2007 The Keystone ferry route will be down to one vessel earlier than expected this fall due to leaky boats that have been taken out of service for repairs. Ferry officials have to pull the Nisqually from the route Sunday. Sept. 9, so it can undergo United States Coast Guard-mandated inspection and concrete removal. That leaves just one of the ferry system’s four, 80-year-old Steel Electric vessels, the Klickitat, to run the route. The Steel Electrics are the only ones in the fleet capable of navigating the difficult entrance into Keystone Harbor. Typically the ferry system cuts back to one vessel on the Keystone to Port Townsend run later in September, after the busy tourist season ends. However, the boats are old and each has been pulled from service in recent months to repair leaks that have suddenly sprung up. Two of the vessels, the Quinault and the Illahee, are currently out of service having stern tubes replaced, said Marta Coursey, communications director for Washington State Ferries. The Illahee was pulled from service at the end of July when workers found a crack in the vessel’s stern tube. It turned out the Quinault also needed the same work done to it. The breakdown wreaked havoc with tourists coming home for the weekend and the Nisqually was brought in to replace the Illahee. To allow the Nisqually to run the route, ferry officials were allowed to delay pulling the vessel until September. Then, in November, the Klickitat undergoes a full hull inspection. The inspection is the latest in the stepped up inspections and maintenance ordered by the Coast Guard to keep the vessels functioning safely. “It’s like having an old car. The maintenance just builds up and builds up,” said Mike LaCroix, port engineer for Washington State Ferries during a Tuesday morning media tour of the Klickitat. The Coast Guard required more inspections of the hulls after cracks and leaks were found in the various vessels. Last March, the Klickitat was pulled and the route cancelled for several days when a crack formed in the hull at the front of the vessel. Several cracks were discovered in the Illahee and Quinault in May and June. LaCroix didn’t have a price yet on how much the stern tube replacement will cost. The ferry system says it is committed to maintaining the vessels until viable replacements are found. Currently there is an engineer and an oiler on duty 24 hours a day, seven days a week on the Klickitat. They maintain the two diesel engines and four electric motors needed to propel the boat, which can carry 64 cars and approximately 600 passengers. The Klickitat was built in 1927 and rebuilt in 1981. Interestingly enough, the Klickitat has a telegraph system that allows the pilothouse to communicate with the engine room. During a tour of the Klickitat, LaCroix showed the patch that repaired the crack that knocked it out of commission last March. Engineer Andy DeGraaf said the crack occurred right where a sponson meets the hull. The ferry system is looking to replace the Steel Electric vessels, which were built the same year, 1927, that Charles Lindbergh made his historic flight across the Atlantic. But there is no state funding and the process could take several years. Ferry officials are working on a study looking at options to replace the antiquated vessels. That study is scheduled to be finished in January and forwarded to the Legislature when it convenes next year. www.whidbeynewstimes.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=84&cat=23&id=1054866&more=0
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Post by SS San Mateo on Aug 31, 2007 11:47:30 GMT -8
I wonder if the dreaded "corroded stern tube" problem will show up on the Nisqually and/or Klickitat.
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Post by hergfest on Aug 31, 2007 15:37:43 GMT -8
I'm thinking they will find more stern tube problems. They would have never known the Quinault was so bad unless the Illahee has it's problem.
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
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Post by FNS on Aug 31, 2007 18:56:47 GMT -8
Let's hope our Steel-Electrics can get fixed so we can see them running better again until their replacements can be designed and built. Perhaps two or three "ISLAND HOME" - like ferries with a base capacity of 60 cars and stowable tween decks for 16 more. The MV ISLAND HOME has a length of 255 feet, a beam of 64 feet, and a draft of less than 11 feet and has thrusters at each end. Name these two MV QUILLAYUTE and MV QUILCENE (for the nearby geographical city locations these would serve). With these two new "Q"-Class boats named, name the new 144's MV CHETZEMOKA and MV KLAHANIE for Mukilteo, MV WILLAPA for the San Juans (and Bremerton during winters), and the MV ENETAI for the Bremerton run. That's two and two and two from each legendary classes of old reliable ferries!
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