FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
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MV Hyak
Jan 10, 2007 19:51:01 GMT -8
Post by FNS on Jan 10, 2007 19:51:01 GMT -8
Why was the Spokane ever at PT? After the Hood Canal Bridge sank in 1979, WSF created an Edmonds - Port Townsend route to help out until service could be established on Hood Canal. Initially they used a super class ferry, then they replaced that boat with the Spokane. Greetings, all! I took three trips on the Edmonds - Port Townsend run myself in 1979 and 1980. The first was in the summer aboard the SPOKANE from Edmonds in the late afternoon. We met the southbound PRINCESS MARGUERITE on that trip. The next trip was on my birthday in December from Port Townsend aboard the WALLA WALLA. That trip started in twilight and ended in the night. It's a ninety minute trip on the Jumbos between the two cities in good conditions. After the sinking of the Bridge in that windy February night of 1979, WSF went right to work and did some dredging at the little old Quincy Street dock at Port Townsend. The usual ferries that served this terminal at that time were the OLYMPIC and RHODODENDRON in alternating times and drew no more than nine feet of water each. The big ferries to call from Edmonds drew almost double that. At the same time, the existing side dolphins were expanded to handle the beam of the Jumbos (also two more dolphins were added to the south of these). This is why you see so many dolphins at the old dock. After ferry service was restored to the Lofall - South Point run in the spring of 1980, the TILLIKUM phased out the long run and I rode that one on the last day of service (two hour trips on that one). TILLIKUM went back to Vashon Island after the last trip from Port Townsend, and a beautiful route was ended. The RHODODENDRON was on the Keystone run then and made fast at Keystone each night when the long run was in operation. There was only one slip at Port Townsend then and the long run ran almost 24 hours a day. Keystone ferries normally berth at PT at service day's end. In the early 1980's, WSF opened the new Harrison Street dock. The old dock remained. In 1985, the MV VASHON was a hostel at Quincy Street from June to July. Later on, the VANCOUVER ISLAND PRINCESS (PRINCESS OF VANCOUVER) tried out the little old dock for possible automobile service between Port Townsend to Victoria (which never materialized). Sure was fun seeing big ferries at the little old single lane Quincy Street dock for a little while! Hopefully, they'll bring the long route back when the Hood Canal Bridge is reworked (if there are no plans to repair the docks and bring the Lofall run up and operating). Jumbo Mark II ferries are the ones to use!
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MV Hyak
Jan 11, 2007 20:25:06 GMT -8
Post by Barnacle on Jan 11, 2007 20:25:06 GMT -8
Unfortunately, I do believe all our Jumbo Mk IIs are spoken for on a year-round basis. Also, I have heard vague rumors that the 'replacement' service for the HCB will be a passenger shuttle from Lofall to South Point. Great... a foot-ferry run from nowhere, to nowhere.
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MV Hyak
Jan 11, 2007 20:39:52 GMT -8
Post by old_wsf_fan on Jan 11, 2007 20:39:52 GMT -8
I have some questions.....
When is the HCB supposed to be closed for replacement?
How long is the anticipated closure to last?
Would it be practical to restart ferry service from Lofall and Southpoint?
Sounds pretty expensive due to the fact that there are no docks left to restart service.
Might be better to return service from Edmonds to PT.
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MV Hyak
Jan 11, 2007 20:52:46 GMT -8
Post by SS San Mateo on Jan 11, 2007 20:52:46 GMT -8
I'm going to assume that some kind of transit service will be provided to the 2 terminals if there is passenger-only service on Hood Canal during the closure (scheduled in mid-2009 and about 6 weeks long).
The Lofall terminal is no longer there, but the South Point terminal was still there when I went through that area in 1994. The ramp was removed, but the rest of the dock (with the exception of what I assume was the waiting room) was more or less intact.
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MV Hyak
Jan 12, 2007 8:15:32 GMT -8
Post by Barnacle on Jan 12, 2007 8:15:32 GMT -8
In order: (1) Don't know when; (2) don't know how long; (3) no, as the docks are essentially gone (I wouldn't want to try to reconstitute the South Point facility that hasn't been maintained in 20+ years--the ramps ended up at Orcas Island and South Clinton in 1990 and 1986); and we (WSF front-liners) would all love to see Edmonds/PT service reopened. However, it's a matter of getting the boats available to do it.
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MV Hyak
Jan 12, 2007 10:40:49 GMT -8
Post by EGfleet on Jan 12, 2007 10:40:49 GMT -8
In order: (1) Don't know when; (2) don't know how long; (3) no, as the docks are essentially gone (I wouldn't want to try to reconstitute the South Point facility that hasn't been maintained in 20+ years--the ramps ended up at Orcas Island and South Clinton in 1990 and 1986); and we (WSF front-liners) would all love to see Edmonds/PT service reopened. However, it's a matter of getting the boats available to do it. From the DOT website: What is the project timeline?The original timeline was meant to have the new bridge in place by 2006. As a result of the archaeological discoveries at the original pontoon and anchor construction site in Port Angeles, the bridge replacement date was changed to 2009. ...The tribe was represented on both the Hood Canal Bridge Advisory Committee and the Hood Canal Bridge Stakeholders Committees, as transportation options were being explored for the eight-week bridge closure.Here's the link: www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/sr104hoodcanalbridgeeast/
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
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MV Hyak
Jan 12, 2007 13:18:16 GMT -8
Post by FNS on Jan 12, 2007 13:18:16 GMT -8
Here is a do-able solution for the operation of the Edmonds - Port Townsend run while the Hood Canal Bridge is reworked. This is a summer lineup if the work is done during that time period.
Anacortes-San Juans-Sidney ADA KALEETAN ADA YAKIMA ADA ELWHA ADA CHELAN ADA ILLAHEE
Keystone-Port Townsend ADA QUINAULT (Make fast at Keystone at night) ADA NISQUALLY (Make fast at new Harrison tie-up or old Quincy at night)
Mukilteo-Clinton ADA CATHLAMET ADA KITTITAS ADA EVERGREEN STATE (Added service with Everett as overnight berthing if no third slip at Clinton restored)
Edmonds-Port Townsend (Temporary HCB detour) ADA PUYALLUP (24 hour vessel) ADA WENATCHEE (Make fast at Kingston at night)
Edmonds-Kingston (Temporarily downgraded - no OP traffic) ADA KITSAP (Make fast at Kingston at night) ADA SEALTH (Make fast at Kingston at night)
Seattle-Bainbridge (Temporarily downgraded - no OP traffic) ADA TACOMA ADA HYAK
Seattle-Bremerton (More OP traffic) ADA SPOKANE ADA WALLA WALLA
Fauntleroy-Vashon-Soutworth ADA ISSAQUAH ADA KLAHOWYA ADA TILLIKUM
Point Defiance-Tahlequah ADA RHODODENDRON
Standby NON-ADA KLICKITAT NON-ADA HIYU
ADA: Vessel has elevator NON-ADA: No elevator on vessel
When the Bridge went down in 1979, WSF downgraded two runs: the Bainbridge and the Kingston (as there were no more Olympic Peninsula traffic on these runs). One super replaced a jumbo on the Bainbridge run as the jumbo went on the Bremerton run with its super (more traffic was using the Bremerton run while the Port Townsend dock was being readied for bigger ferries). The Kingston run was downgraded from the ELWHA and NISQUALLY to the TILLIKUM.
When the E-PT was in operation, the Bremerton run returned to two supers (HYAK and YAKIMA) and the Bainbridge run had a jumbo and the ELWHA. A jumbo was on the E-PT that summer.
When the E-PT was operating, the Keystone ferry made fast at Keystone at night. This same arrangement will need to be done for on the primary vessel there this time and the second one made fast at new Harrison tie-up or old Quincy (leaving the main new Harrison slip at Port Townsend for the Edmonds ferry). The primary vessel on the long run would operate 24 hours as the previous operation did. The second E-PT and both Kingston vessels can make fast at Kingston at service day's end.
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MV Hyak
Jan 13, 2007 0:58:25 GMT -8
Post by hergfest on Jan 13, 2007 0:58:25 GMT -8
WSF ran two Jumbos on the Bremerton run when they closed the bridge last year, I think the Kitsap moved to the Kingston run.
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MV Hyak
Jan 13, 2007 8:25:48 GMT -8
Post by zman on Jan 13, 2007 8:25:48 GMT -8
I remember when that happened...It was awesome to see the sisters at Bremerton.
Does anybody know how that particular switch worked out? From what I noticed, not a whole lot of extra vehicles were doing the Bremerton trip.
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MV Hyak
Jan 13, 2007 12:43:13 GMT -8
Post by Political Incorrectness on Jan 13, 2007 12:43:13 GMT -8
Yup, the Puyallup and Kitsap ran Kingston and they should have just run the Sealth on Kingston run or another Issaquah and two Jumbos ran the Bremerton route. They also extended hours on the Port Townsend Keystone run.
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MV Hyak
Jan 13, 2007 16:00:59 GMT -8
Post by Barnacle on Jan 13, 2007 16:00:59 GMT -8
Kitsap and Sealth at Edmonds? I do believe you vastly overestimate what the percentage of Olympic Peninsula traffic is on that route. I admit a lot of trucks use that route and are bound for the OP; however, the vast majority of traffic on EDK is bound for north Kitsap and is, indeed, an overflow from Bainbridge (Winslow to us old-timers, before they got snooty). Cutting their traffic capacity in half (from about 400 cars to about 214) would be grounds for the revolution. Ya gotta remember that the previous HCB incident was in 1979, when WSF's annual traffic load was only about 60% of what it is now. Though swapping a Super out of the San Juans in favor of the Kitsap might help, leaving the lower-capacity Sealth at Kingston for an Alberni-style truck carrier (she can carry 42 tall spaces to the Kitsap's 26) might be a factor... On the flip side, the Evergreen State would be available as a relief vessel as a practical matter, because three-boat operations in Mukilteo with boats of that size is flat-out impossible with only the single slip at Mukilteo. Anyway, all of this seems a lot of trouble to go to for a bridge that is reportedly only going to be closed for six weeks. ;D
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MV Hyak
Jan 13, 2007 16:53:56 GMT -8
Post by Political Incorrectness on Jan 13, 2007 16:53:56 GMT -8
Barnacle, I forgot to mention that I am talking of when the Hood Canal Bridge was closed. They did not have that much traffic at the time I was travelling and even someone at the toll booth at Kingston said it was a slow day. Yes this was on a Friday might I mention.
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MV Hyak
Jan 17, 2007 17:09:56 GMT -8
Post by SS Shasta on Jan 17, 2007 17:09:56 GMT -8
I too was confused about the reduced passenger capacity of MV Hyak during its recent assignment to the Seattle/Winslow run. Does anyone know if any passengers were held at the dock because of this reduced capacity? Now that she has returned to the Bremerton run, has her passenger capacity returned to her listed numbers? Still confused
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MV Hyak
Feb 1, 2007 16:41:10 GMT -8
Post by SS Shasta on Feb 1, 2007 16:41:10 GMT -8
Just wondering......... Will MV Hyak be returning to the San Juan Islands this summer or will repairs to MV Elwa be completed in time for the summer season? Elwa must have suffered major damage to be out of service this long.
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MV Hyak
Feb 2, 2007 16:39:37 GMT -8
Post by EGfleet on Feb 2, 2007 16:39:37 GMT -8
Just wondering......... Will MV Hyak be returning to the San Juan Islands this summer or will repairs to MV Elwa be completed in time for the summer season? Elwa must have suffered major damage to be out of service this long. If the Elwha is finished in time for summer, which is in doubt as the contract for her propulsion upgrade has still not been awarded, she'd like come up in the islands, but not as the international ferry. We'll see what happens. I'm still not placing bets on seeing her back before October.
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MV Hyak
Feb 12, 2007 20:44:33 GMT -8
Post by old_wsf_fan on Feb 12, 2007 20:44:33 GMT -8
If and when the Elwha returns to the islands, what becomes of the Chelan? Does she stay in the islands or will she go to another route?
As in years past, I think most of the Super class vessels end up in the islands for the summer, yes or no?
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MV Hyak
Feb 12, 2007 21:38:21 GMT -8
Post by EGfleet on Feb 12, 2007 21:38:21 GMT -8
If and when the Elwha returns to the islands, what becomes of the Chelan? Does she stay in the islands or will she go to another route? As in years past, I think most of the Super class vessels end up in the islands for the summer, yes or no? There are usually three Supers, one Issaquah and one Steel Electric. It might be the Elwha fills in for the spot the Hyak usual does, with the Chelan running the international route.
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MV Hyak
Feb 12, 2007 21:57:38 GMT -8
Post by Barnacle on Feb 12, 2007 21:57:38 GMT -8
I would suspect the Chelan, having proven to be quite successful on the Sidney run, will continue. The Elwha, if it were running, would be the #3 boat (the old Sealth/Chelan slot). The Yak and Kaleetan (or Hyak) would also be up.
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MV Hyak
Feb 12, 2007 23:03:23 GMT -8
Post by SS Shasta on Feb 12, 2007 23:03:23 GMT -8
How did the lower capacity of MV Chelan impact the International route last summer? Were there many vehicles left at the dock because of overloads? Was the original plan to assign MV Chelan to the route on the fall/spring schedule and MV Elwa during the summer season?
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MV Hyak
Feb 13, 2007 8:15:06 GMT -8
Post by EGfleet on Feb 13, 2007 8:15:06 GMT -8
How did the lower capacity of MV Chelan impact the International route last summer? Were there many vehicles left at the dock because of overloads? Was the original plan to assign MV Chelan to the route on the fall/spring schedule and MV Elwa during the summer season? The boat never left anyone behind. At times we were at absolute capacity, but we never left anyone at Sidney, or vice versa.
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MV Hyak
Feb 13, 2007 9:13:24 GMT -8
Post by zman on Feb 13, 2007 9:13:24 GMT -8
The boat never left anyone behind. At times we were at absolute capacity, but we never left anyone at Sidney, or vice versa. That is great...From first-hand experience, it is not fun to be on a crowded Chelan trip for an hour. How were things in regards to passenger comfort?
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MV Hyak
Feb 13, 2007 9:26:59 GMT -8
Post by EGfleet on Feb 13, 2007 9:26:59 GMT -8
The boat never left anyone behind. At times we were at absolute capacity, but we never left anyone at Sidney, or vice versa. That is great...From first-hand experience, it is not fun to be on a crowded Chelan trip for an hour. How were things in regards to passenger comfort? The only time it ever became an issues is if we picked up a lot of people at Friday Harbor on the evening run. Only once can I remember it being so packed it was difficult to find seating--and it might have been the weekend of the fair or the jazz festival.
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MV Hyak
Feb 13, 2007 10:14:10 GMT -8
Post by Barnacle on Feb 13, 2007 10:14:10 GMT -8
To echo Evergreenfleet, I was told the boat overloaded "a handful of times" all summer long. Not enough to justify the cost of running the much more expensive boat when it could be used on domestic trips with much more traffic.
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MV Hyak
Feb 15, 2007 17:47:17 GMT -8
Post by SS Shasta on Feb 15, 2007 17:47:17 GMT -8
Looks like emergency repairs are needed on MV Hyak. She is to be removed from service on 25 February and replaced by MV Spokane on the Seattle - Bremerton route.
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MV Hyak
Feb 15, 2007 18:28:09 GMT -8
Post by Political Incorrectness on Feb 15, 2007 18:28:09 GMT -8
Did someone hit the wrong key? Cause she was in Bremerton running fine just at the commuter run.
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