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Post by EGfleet on Aug 25, 2008 8:08:16 GMT -8
Well, Old Ugly has made it back up to the San Juans and is (thus far) operating normally.
Incidentally, heard over the weekend that when it comes time to dispose of the Supers, the Elwha will be the first to be shown the door.
Frankly, when the first new 144 makes its appearance (and the first is supposed to come to the San Juans) I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Elwha quietly disappears from San Juan service.
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Post by noob on Aug 25, 2008 15:54:20 GMT -8
Interesting rumor considering the new drive motor and control system that actually works ok, well......except for the past month.
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Post by Barnacle on Aug 26, 2008 8:29:14 GMT -8
You're very correct. It works okay.
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Post by northwesterner on Aug 26, 2008 10:17:23 GMT -8
Frankly, when the first new 144 makes its appearance (and the first is supposed to come to the San Juans) I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Elwha quietly disappears from San Juan service. Part of me says - you can't do that - the Kaleetan and Elwha have been running together, as a team up there, pretty much nonstop for two decades, and those two have historically always been paired together. A summer with the Kaleetan and Hyak just wouldn't be right. The flip side of the coin is that the Elwha has terrible stability and rolls hard just going around a normal turn that the other three don't even blink at, never mind how she handles in rough weather. Bremerton is probably a better "home" for her at this point in her career.
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Post by jhjeeper on Aug 26, 2008 15:19:12 GMT -8
I have a kind of strange question regarding MV. Elwah.
I have read here for a long time about the ongoing string of 'incidents' regarding her, and of how she is very top heavy.
Having ridden on the Supers since 1967 (only periodically mind you, being from Wyoming) I have rarely seen the passenger compartments even partially full. And given that over time they were replaced on the Bainbridge and Bremerton routes with ferries that carry less passengers, it makes me wonder about them having excess passenger capacity for their size and vehicle capacity.
So I wonder why the state has not removed the upper deck passenger structure, and just used an open deck there like those on the Jumbo's.
Surely this would be expensive to do, but wouldn't it be worth it if some of the headaches could be removed?
I am NOT advocating it at this point (considering budgets, age, and vessel availability), but the MV. Elwah has spent so much time under rebuild, you would think it would have been at least considered at some point.
Scott
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Post by Kahloke on Aug 26, 2008 18:01:21 GMT -8
Part of me says - you can't do that - the Kaleetan and Elwha have been running together, as a team up there, pretty much nonstop for two decades, and those two have historically always been paired together. Well - yes, and no. In the 80's and 90's, Elwha and Kaleetan seemed to be the San Juan regulars, but really it's been Yakima and Elwha for the past decade, with Kaleetan running during the summers, and subbing in as needed at other times of the year. However, I do agree with your assessment (and others - I think Barnacle mentioned this once or twice, too) about sending Elwha down to calmer waters.
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Post by Kahloke on Aug 26, 2008 18:04:52 GMT -8
Frankly, when the first new 144 makes its appearance (and the first is supposed to come to the San Juans) That's interesting. Any other rumours about where the second and third 144's are going? I always thought Mukilteo would be getting the first one, but it will sure be nice to see one coming to the islands.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Aug 26, 2008 20:00:09 GMT -8
I believe those two will go to Mukilteo which makes sense since they have had increased capacities. Two extra 130s might be used for the Vashon Island to start retiring the Evergreens?
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Post by Kahloke on Aug 26, 2008 20:29:42 GMT -8
I could see WSF doing a summer schedule like this when all of the new vessels are online:
Point Defiance - Tahlequah: Klahowya Fauntleroy - Vashon - Southworth: Cathlamet, Issaquah, Kittitas Seattle - Bremerton: Hyak, Walla Walla Seattle - Bainbridge: Tacoma, Wenatchee Edmonds - Kingston: Puyallup, Spokane Mukilteo - Clinton: N144-2, N144-3 Port Townsend - Keystone: N64-1, N64-2 Anacortes - San Juan Islands: Kaleetan, N144-1, Yakima Anacortes - San Juans - Sidney, BC: Chelan San Juan inter island: Tillikum
out of service/relief: Elwha, Kitsap, Sealth retired: Evergreen State, Rhododendron
This would put Elwha into relief status, which is maybe where she should be given her problems and handling issues.
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Post by hergfest on Aug 26, 2008 22:35:52 GMT -8
Its stated on WSF's website that one 144 will be in the San Juans, one at Mukilteo, and one for Bremerton. A fourth 144 would have been placed on the Mukilteo.
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Post by whidbeyislandguy on Aug 26, 2008 23:13:43 GMT -8
I say put her down on the Clinton / Mukilteo run once the first 144 is in the San Juans.
She can have a nice easy run there that would be great use of her, and I am sure she would be well liked.
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,953
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Post by FNS on Aug 27, 2008 11:28:55 GMT -8
I could see WSF doing a summer schedule like this when all of the new vessels are online: Point Defiance - Tahlequah: KlahowyaFauntleroy - Vashon - Southworth: Cathlamet, Issaquah, KittitasSeattle - Bremerton: Hyak, Walla WallaSeattle - Bainbridge: Tacoma, WenatcheeEdmonds - Kingston: Puyallup, SpokaneMukilteo - Clinton: N144-2, N144-3Port Townsend - Keystone: N64-1, N64-2Anacortes - San Juan Islands: Kaleetan, N144-1, YakimaAnacortes - San Juans - Sidney, BC: ChelanSan Juan inter island: Tillikumout of service/relief: Elwha, Kitsap, Sealth retired: Evergreen State, Rhododendron This would put Elwha into relief status, which is maybe where she should be given her problems and handling issues. I would put the SEALTH on the Tahlequah run instead of the KLAHOWYA as it takes some time for the propulsion systems of the diesel electric vessel to warm up as mentioned in another thread. The SEALTH is direct drive with a CP propeller. All they would be doing on her is change pitch on the propellers and gently raise the throttle on the engines if needed. Since this is a straight shot from one dock to the other, and I've seen her speed not exceed 10 knots on one of her trips there recently, I think they could just use one engine (I think that both propellers can be driven by one engine). A bit of a fuel savings. It all depends on the currents of the water in that area to decide when to use one engine or both. Also, it would be good to have a vessel at Tahlequah capable of carrying large trucks and to reduce the strain on the northern run already having this capability.
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Post by Kahloke on Aug 27, 2008 17:27:13 GMT -8
Its stated on WSF's website that one 144 will be in the San Juans, one at Mukilteo, and one for Bremerton. A fourth 144 would have been placed on the Mukilteo. Oh - you're right. I'd forgotten about that. Well, maybe it will look like this, then: Point Defiance - Tahlequah: SealthFauntleroy - Vashon - Southworth: Issaquah, Kitsap, KittitasSeattle - Bremerton: N144-3, Walla WallaSeattle - Bainbridge: Tacoma, WenatcheeEdmonds - Kingston: Puyallup, SpokaneMukilteo - Clinton: Cathlamet, N144-2Port Townsend - Keystone: N64-1, N64-2Anacortes - San Juan Islands: Kaleetan, N144-1, YakimaAnacortes - San Juans - Sidney, BC: ChelanSan Juan inter island: Klahowyaout of service/relief: Elwha, Hyak, Tillikum retired: Evergreen State, Rhododendron note - I also put Sealth on PD-Tahl per FerryNutSeattle's comments. Of course, this is all pure speculation with no real basis other than an educated guess.
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Post by SS Shasta on Aug 27, 2008 17:33:03 GMT -8
I could see WSF doing a summer schedule like this when all of the new vessels are online: Point Defiance - Tahlequah: KlahowyaFauntleroy - Vashon - Southworth: Cathlamet, Issaquah, KittitasSeattle - Bremerton: Hyak, Walla WallaSeattle - Bainbridge: Tacoma, WenatcheeEdmonds - Kingston: Puyallup, SpokaneMukilteo - Clinton: N144-2, N144-3Port Townsend - Keystone: N64-1, N64-2Anacortes - San Juan Islands: Kaleetan, N144-1, YakimaAnacortes - San Juans - Sidney, BC: ChelanSan Juan inter island: Tillikumout of service/relief: Elwha, Kitsap, Sealth retired: Evergreen State, Rhododendron This would put Elwha into relief status, which is maybe where she should be given her problems and handling issues. I would keep MV Evergreen State in the Islands and place MV Sealth as the 3rd vessel at Mukiteo-Clinton, and MV Kitsap as the 3rd vessel at Edmonds-Kingston during the summer season. Reserve vessels must be available to take over the route of at least one of the vessels taken out of service for summer painting. Also would keep MV Hiyu in reserve status unless she is working on the "proposed" Vashon-Southworth route.
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Post by hergfest on Aug 27, 2008 19:39:27 GMT -8
WSF will never put a third vessel on Mukilteo-Clinton, even with a second slip at Mukilteo. It takes the full 30 minute turnaround to travel the round then load/unload. There is no time for a third vessel to load/unload without delaying the schedule.
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Post by Kahloke on Aug 27, 2008 20:28:46 GMT -8
I would keep MV Evergreen State in the Islands and place MV Sealth as the 3rd vessel at Mukiteo-Clinton, and MV Kitsap as the 3rd vessel at Edmonds-Kingston during the summer season. Reserve vessels must be available to take over the route of at least one of the vessels taken out of service for summer painting. Also would keep MV Hiyu in reserve status unless she is working on the "proposed" Vashon-Southworth route. I'll admit, I forgot to put Hiyu in on the reserve status list, but I based this deployment schedule on the premise that the two oldest vessels, Rhododendron and Evergreen State, are going to be retired when the new vessels come online.
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Post by SS San Mateo on Aug 27, 2008 20:41:47 GMT -8
I don't think there's enough traffic on either of the routes to justify a 3'rd vessel.
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Post by Kahloke on Aug 27, 2008 20:51:53 GMT -8
I think there's enough traffic to justify a 3rd boat at Edmonds-Kingston, at least on the weekends during the summer. However, it is my understanding that the infrastructure won't support a 3rd vessel there until the Edmonds ferry terminal gets relocated, and a second slip is added.
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Post by SS Shasta on Aug 28, 2008 6:49:07 GMT -8
I would think that solving the problems of long lines at Edmonds and Mukiteo should be the number one challenge for WSF. These lines are no longer limited to week ends and can often back up for two to three hours. Having a 3rd smaller vessel on the routes would help in my opinion, even with only one slip at Edmonds and Mukiteo. At one time WSF actually ran 4 vessels at Mukiteo and 3 at Edmonds. Can't remember if 4 vessels were ever used at Edmonds???
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Post by EGfleet on Aug 28, 2008 8:20:41 GMT -8
I would think that solving the problems of long lines at Edmonds and Mukiteo should be the number one challenge for WSF. These lines are no longer limited to week ends and can often back up for two to three hours. Having a 3rd smaller vessel on the routes would help in my opinion, even with only one slip at Edmonds and Mukiteo. At one time WSF actually ran 4 vessels at Mukiteo and 3 at Edmonds. Can't remember if 4 vessels were ever used at Edmonds??? The number one challenge at WSF is replacing over half its fleet in the coming years.
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Post by SS San Mateo on Nov 25, 2008 14:52:52 GMT -8
Looks like the Elwha might be on the international route for at least part of the spring schedule. Based on the latest assignment schedule, the Chelan is replacing the Issaquah on the Vashon route while she is in drydock (3/23 - 5/29).
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Post by guest on Dec 7, 2008 8:27:28 GMT -8
I heard from a reliable source that the Elwha bilge valve job has been cancelled, no money and wasn't really worth doing in the first place.
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Post by Barnacle on Dec 7, 2008 8:56:19 GMT -8
Sounds like a rumor starter to me.
That having been said, it makes sense, especially if the Conspiracy To Eliminate The Sidney Run exists--which I believe it does. That run is so hard to defend economically... anyway, we shall see.
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Post by EGfleet on Dec 7, 2008 9:20:39 GMT -8
Sounds like a rumor starter to me. That having been said, it makes sense, especially if the Conspiracy To Eliminate The Sidney Run exists--which I believe it does. That run is so hard to defend economically... anyway, we shall see. I was wondering how long it would take for that project to get canceled. That would knock the system down to one SOLAS boat, and yes, lend some credence that the Sidney run is in the cross hairs again.
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Post by guest on Dec 7, 2008 10:58:13 GMT -8
WSF has already purchased the valves but from what i understand from one of the PE's they can be returned at not too big of a loss. I'm not sure if the actual job has been put out ot bid yet, i've heard conflicting reports. There is the argument about having a backup boat to the Chelan but at a cost of close to a million dollars? Good news for the Chelan guys though! Helloooo Bremerton for the Elwha!
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