Mukilteo-Clinton

[Deleted]

But, if WA State ferries puts an Olympic Class on the route, and a second Olympic Class in the future with the second phrase of the class. D.O.T for WA would have to put an overhead loading at both terminals to speed up loading to keep the sailing every 30 minutes from both terminals.

[Deleted]

I agree with you. I think in the future if they do add a second Olympic Class to the route they will need to put an overhead walkway at the Clinton terminal as well. Of course some of it may have to do with how many passengers they are carrying vs cars at that time.

[Deleted]

Yeah, I was trying to say this.

Nov 5, 2012 20:54:01 GMT -8 @qpr said:

I think in the future if they do add a second Olympic Class to the route they will need to put an overhead walkway at the Clinton terminal as well. Of course some of it may have to do with how many passengers they are carrying vs cars at that time.

But, I really think WA State D.O.T should put an overhead loading when the first Olympic Class vessel comes to the route with an Issaquah class vessel. The overhead loading will help seed up loading, mainly, for the Olympic Class.

[Barnacle]

Nov 5, 2012 7:02:00 GMT -8 @qpr said:

If you look on the WSF Homepage and click on Current Projects under Mukilteo Multimodel Project there's a video which shows the new proposed Mukilteo terminal with passenger overhead loading ramps. I don't believe they have any plans to add them at Clinton anytime soon.

I stand corrected. However, I'm also a little surprised that after all the niose they've made about needing two slips at Mukilteo to maintain 30-minute scheduling, the EP-1 and EP-2 designs don't show them.

That being said, I'll reiterate what EGFleet said: last I heard, the Air Force still owns the property, hasn't made any indications of wishing to divest, and the area is reportedly stiff with native artifacts which will kill the project.

I've been listening to plans on the Mukilteo terminal for my entire career at WSF, which is a considerable amount of time.

[Deleted]

I was surprised too see that the EP-1 and EP-2 designs only show one slip. I thought the plan all along was to have two slips at Mukilteo?

It is interesting that WSF keeps saying they would like to move the terminal to the Air Force property even though there is no clear indication the Air Force would sell it to them. It seems they are just dreaming of moving the terminal to that area. In my opinion I think what will happen is that the existing terminal will be upgraded and that will complete the project. Especially if there is native artifacts on the other property.

The plans for the new Mukilteo terminal have been indeed going on for years and so far they are just that, plans. It reminds me of the plans they had to move the Edmonds terminal and expand it.

[Kahloke]

Nov 6, 2012 8:07:11 GMT -8 @qpr said:

The plans for the new Mukilteo terminal have been indeed going on for years and so far they are just that, plans. It reminds me of the plans they had to move the Edmonds terminal and expand it.

Not to mention the plans for relocating the Keystone terminal out of the harbor.

[chokai]

This is my most heavily ridden route and many hours sitting in line this past summer has given me lots of time to read the EIS's on my phone. (dunno if that's good or not) A major requirement in the design is to provide no elements that would impede adding a 2nd slip a later date. If you look closely at the latest design you can see it's actually setup slickly for this (in theory) with room for a west slip that could unload into the vehicle offload lanes while the east slip is used to load a boat. The Clinton setup is similar and in fact it already has the seat for a 2nd slip's bridge on the big new fancy dock they built before they cancelled phase 2 there.

Nov 6, 2012 6:33:49 GMT -8 Barnacle said:

That being said, I'll reiterate what EGFleet said: last I heard, the Air Force still owns the property, hasn't made any indications of wishing to divest, and the area is reportedly stiff with native artifacts which will kill the project.

After the cleanup in the 90's the airforce was ordered by Congress in 2000 to study the feasbility of and to then if possible convey the Tank Farm to the Port of Everett, specifically for multi-modal use. After it passed it's final cleanup regs in '05 they declared the property excess and in 2010 published a draft EIS finding no significant obstacles to the transfer. They've also granted multiple easements and leases to Sound Transit for the Sounder stations phase two construction. They are showing a lot of interest in getting rid of it and I can understand why, they have to pay for it's upkeep/security etc and have no strategic need for it anymore, though they certainly are moving on gov't time. As recently as October of this year the Port of Everett anticipates transfer happening in 2013 after the draft environmental impact statements go final so keep your ears to the ground.

As to archeological stuff, the risk here is a lot lower in some ways while being higher for others. For example we aren't digging a multi-acre hole in the ground. :-)

www.portofeverett.com/home/index.asp?page=78 (October '12)
www.62aw.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-100706-110.pdf (July '10)

[Barnacle]

Huh. Clearly I'm out of the loop on this. Put it down to my increasing lack of interest, perhaps... I'll be as surprised as anyone if it ever gets off the ground. It does look good on paper, though.

[chokai]

Funding is short on the Mukilteo terminal by nearly 40M. As the state waded through the approval process the money was instead spent on the maintenance of the fleet.

Of course this type of article is always a little misleading as the legislature could easily reallocate money from or cancel other projects should they choose to do so.

www.king5.com/news/local/WSF-Mukilteo-ferry-terminal-funding-millions-short-185237022.html

[Deleted]

Why does the maintenance schedule from December 27, show the Kitsap, Kittitas and the Cathlamet on the Mukilteo / Clinton route from January 21, to January 28?

[SolDuc]

Jan 11, 2013 23:50:22 GMT -8 @cheese12345678 said:

Why does the maintenance schedule from December 27, show the Kitsap, Kittitas and the Cathlamet on the Mukilteo / Clinton route from January 21, to January 28?

Because there is an error! ;D

I think that either the Cathy or the Kitty needs a week at EH.

[Blue Bus Fan]

Since this route is second busiest route in the system. With this numbers;

Mar 11, 2013 12:31:48 GMT -8 chokai said:

• Mukilteo-Clinton: 3,834,967 pas/2,090,426 car[.]

Why do they have two Issaquah 130 class vessels on the route? Will the Tokitae help deal with the capacity issues on this route?

[Mike C]

Mar 11, 2013 16:00:13 GMT -8 Blue Bus Fan said:

Since this route is second busiest route in the system. With this numbers;

Mar 11, 2013 12:31:48 GMT -8 chokai said:

• Mukilteo-Clinton: 3,834,967 pas/2,090,426 car[.]

Why do they have two Issaquah 130 class vessels on the route? Will the Tokitae help deal with the capacity issues on this route?

Because the frequency of the service provided does not constitute the use of larger vessels.  At present, a 124 AEQ vessel operates every half hour on regular schedule.

[SolDuc]

Mar 11, 2013 16:09:10 GMT -8 Mike C said:

Mar 11, 2013 16:00:13 GMT -8 Blue Bus Fan said:

Since this route is second busiest route in the system. With this numbers;
Why do they have two Issaquah 130 class vessels on the route? Will the Tokitae help deal with the capacity issues on this route?

Because the frequency of the service provided does not constitute the use of larger vessels.  At present, a 124 AEQ vessel operates every half hour on regular schedule.

Yup, the frequency is the key. Edmonds-Kingston has the second highest ridership and boats 4/3 the capacity of the Issys, but the frequency is way less.

An interesting fact is that when you arrive at Mukilteo and it's busy, at the inverse of other routes, they won't tell you which sailing you are on, or not even an approximate. But a 30 minute frequency with a 10 minute turnaround is something WSF can be proud of, given facts such as no overhead loading or the streets at Mukilteo. One advantage of the Mukilteo terminal is that it is open. If there is a big sailing wait, go to Ivars or go on a tour of the small city. When you learn that there is a 4 or 5 sailing wait (what happened to us at Memorial day), you will gasp but overall it goes very quickly.

[chokai]

Tokitae will help with things provided the wider lanes let them load faster and overhead loading allows them to load cars longer.

The new terminal will be a shame in the sense that it will move you away from both Ivar's and Diamond Knot and with the low turn around time you can't really walk over there and back. It's all about growlers to go from Diamond Knot. For those of us over 21. :-)

Back when fuel was "cheap" when the lines were more than a boat long they'd put Kit and Cat on shuttle service and apparently run pretty much as fast as they could all day until they got down to a one boat wait whether or not the kept the schedule.  I remember showing up at all sorts of times and having the boat be coming or going when it shouldn't have or running very close together, it wasn't due to one of them being "delayed" per-say either.   This stopped not long after they got the 2nd car decks.  They also stopped trying to "squeeze" cars then, now they just load and go.

[Barnacle]

Mar 11, 2013 17:07:39 GMT -8 chokai said:

Tokitae will help with things provided the wider lanes let them load faster and overhead loading allows them to load cars longer.

The new terminal will be a shame in the sense that it will move you away from both Ivar's and Diamond Knot and with the low turn around time you can't really walk over there and back. It's all about growlers to go from Diamond Knot. For those of us over 21. :-)

Back when fuel was "cheap" when the lines were more than a boat long they'd put Kit and Cat on shuttle service and apparently run pretty much as fast as they could all day until they got down to a one boat wait whether or not the kept the schedule.  I remember showing up at all sorts of times and having the boat be coming or going when it shouldn't have or running very close together, it wasn't due to one of them being "delayed" per-say either.   This stopped not long after they got the 2nd car decks.  They also stopped trying to "squeeze" cars then, now they just load and go.

Assuming, of course, the Tokitae goes to Mukilteo.  With Senator Haugen out of the mix, that may not be the case.  (I thought it was going to Bremerton.)

I don't recall ever seeing the boats "run wild," but I wasn't that much of a student of the game back then.  I do, however, recall three-boat service at Mukilteo... usually a Steel-E, the Kulshan, and a random Baltimore.  If things were really ugly, #3 would be the Vashon.  Huh... just hit me, that entire combination is gone now. *sigh*

[Steve Rosenow]

Mar 15, 2013 5:51:11 GMT -8 Barnacle said:

Mar 11, 2013 17:07:39 GMT -8 chokai said:

Tokitae will help with things provided the wider lanes let them load faster and overhead loading allows them to load cars longer.

The new terminal will be a shame in the sense that it will move you away from both Ivar's and Diamond Knot and with the low turn around time you can't really walk over there and back. It's all about growlers to go from Diamond Knot. For those of us over 21. :-)

Back when fuel was "cheap" when the lines were more than a boat long they'd put Kit and Cat on shuttle service and apparently run pretty much as fast as they could all day until they got down to a one boat wait whether or not the kept the schedule.  I remember showing up at all sorts of times and having the boat be coming or going when it shouldn't have or running very close together, it wasn't due to one of them being "delayed" per-say either.   This stopped not long after they got the 2nd car decks.  They also stopped trying to "squeeze" cars then, now they just load and go.

Assuming, of course, the Tokitae goes to Mukilteo.  With Senator Haugen out of the mix, that may not be the case.  (I thought it was going to Bremerton.)

I don't recall ever seeing the boats "run wild," but I wasn't that much of a student of the game back then.  I do, however, recall three-boat service at Mukilteo... usually a Steel-E, the Kulshan, and a random Baltimore.  If things were really ugly, #3 would be the Vashon.  Huh... just hit me, that entire combination is gone now. *sigh*

A recent article at the Kitsap Sun as I recall, said that the Tokitae was destined for the Bremerton run, so I don't see it going to Mukilteo/Clinton anytime soon.

Of course, saying that is like citing the maintenance schedule and expecting that to hold true a month or two out. We all know to take that with a fine grain of salt!

[Freeland]

Tonight would be good time to have extra Ferry. See WSF Bulletin.

Subject: Ferry Alert: Muk/Clin-Two Evening Round Trips Cancelled Mar.16 due to nec. repairs to vessel


Saturday evening, March 16, there will be one-boat service between Mukilteo and Clinton due to necessary repairs of the Kittitas.
The 8:55pm and the 9:50pm sailings from Clinton,
and the 9:25pm and 10:20 sailings from Mukilteo are cancelled.

The following sailings will leave Mukilteo for Clinton this evening: 9:00pm, 10:00pm, 11:00pm, Midnight, and 1:05am.
The following sailings will leave Clinton for Mukilteo this evening: 9:30pm, 10:30pm, 11:30pm, and 12:30am.
We apologize for the inconvenience.

[hergfest]

But are those sailings really full on a Saturday night? Besides traffic coming home from the Sounders match I doubt it.

[chokai]

Mar 15, 2013 5:51:11 GMT -8 Barnacle said:

Assuming, of course, the Tokitae goes to Mukilteo.  With Senator Haugen out of the mix, that may not be the case.  (I thought it was going to Bremerton.)

I don't recall ever seeing the boats "run wild," but I wasn't that much of a student of the game back then.  I do, however, recall three-boat service at Mukilteo... usually a Steel-E, the Kulshan, and a random Baltimore.  If things were really ugly, #3 would be the Vashon.  Huh... just hit me, that entire combination is gone now. *sigh*

It would've been in the mid-80's probably that I saw shuttle service, and only on the busiest days (i.e 4th, labor day, memorial).  I have vague recollections (which may or may not be accurate) of 3 boat service from I believe Edmonds after Cathlamet crushed the Mukilteo dock.  I assume because Cathlamet had been pulled and to be repaired and tinkered with.

Side bar... Has there ever been a ferry dock on the Everett waterfront?

[FNS]

Mar 21, 2013 8:41:08 GMT -8 chokai said:

Mar 15, 2013 5:51:11 GMT -8 Barnacle said:

Assuming, of course, the Tokitae goes to Mukilteo.  With Senator Haugen out of the mix, that may not be the case.  (I thought it was going to Bremerton.)

I don't recall ever seeing the boats "run wild," but I wasn't that much of a student of the game back then.  I do, however, recall three-boat service at Mukilteo... usually a Steel-E, the Kulshan, and a random Baltimore.  If things were really ugly, #3 would be the Vashon.  Huh... just hit me, that entire combination is gone now. *sigh*

It would've been in the mid-80's probably that I saw shuttle service, and only on the busiest days (i.e 4th, labor day, memorial).  I have vague recollections (which may or may not be accurate) of 3 boat service from I believe Edmonds after Cathlamet crushed the Mukilteo dock.  I assume because Cathlamet had been pulled and to be repaired and tinkered with.

Side bar... Has there ever been a ferry dock on the Everett waterfront?

There appeared to be a dock in Everett in this photo from "evergreenfleet.com":


www.evergreenfleet.com/rogues.html

Everett continues to be an embarkation point for ferry service to Gedney (Hat) Island.

www.hatisland.org/ferry.htm

Occasionally, they get a landing craft to ferry vehicles to and from that island.  The SAN JUAN ENTERPRISE has paid a visit recently.

www.sanjuanmarinefreight.com/

[SolDuc]

The old floating dolphin from Mukilteo was not destructed, but is rather anchord in Eagle Harbor as this photo shows:

Wooden floating Dolphin - Eagle Harbor by SolDuc Photo, on Flickr

[Kahloke]

Mukilteo, 05-July-2013:

[chokai]

The tank farm property has been formally transfered to the Port of Everett as of today. :-)

[SolDuc]

Just because I'm not only a urban planner but also a ferry fan, I combine the two into a new Mukilteo on The Urbanist:

Mukilteo’s Unique Opportunity

Posted March 17, 2014 by Guy de Gouville & filed under Land Use, Transportation.

Departing the Mukilteo terminal. Photo by the author.

Located just southwest of Everett, the city of Mukilteo boasts excellent urban amenities, many transportation options, and impressive views of Possession Sound and Mount Baker. The city’s location along the shore of Puget Sound makes it a natural crossroads for rail, sea, and road transportation.

The Washington State Department of Transportation (WSDOT) is planning to replace Mukilteo’s aging and congested ferry terminal with a new multimodal facility. The new terminal will be built adjacent to the existing one, on a large parcel that was formerly used by the military. To complement this project, Sound Transit will also expand the Mukilteo Sounder station by adding a second platform. After construction is complete, the old terminal will be removed.

Together, these projects present a unique opportunity for Mukilteo. The new terminal will significantly improve pedestrian access to trains, buses, and ferries. Meanwhile, the removal of the old terminal will leave behind a huge amount of land in an area with beautiful views and abundant transit access. By designating this area for transit-oriented development, Mukilteo could create a vibrant neighborhood, enriching the lives of residents, workers, and tourists alike.

Planned Improvements

While WSDOT’s future ferry terminal site is currently nothing more than a sea of parking, it will see a major transformation over the next few years.

Currently, the Mukilteo Sounder station only has a single platform, on the north side of the tracks. This creates scheduling bottlenecks, since all trains with a stop in Mukilteo must use a single track. For this reason, no Amtrak trains currently stop at Mukilteo. Sound Transit is in the process of building a second platform on the south side of the tracks. A pedestrian bridge from the south platform will connect passengers to the north platform. When complete, trains stopping at Mukilteo will no longer have to cross over to the north track. This will improve reliability, simplify scheduling, and potentially allow Sound Transit or Amtrak to increase service to Mukilteo Station.

The Mukilteo ferry terminal is currently served by two half-hourly all-day routes, and peak-only routes to Boeing, downtown Seattle, and the University of Washington. Community Transit will be building a new transit center adjacent to the Sounder station and the new ferry terminal. With the addition of much-needed layover space, Community Transit will be able to run more buses to and from the waterfront.

There are also many other improvements:

• Walk-on ferry riders will have a new terminal entry that leads directly to the passenger level, a significant accessibility improvement from today.
• An additional tollbooth will reduce ferry backups on the Mukilteo Speedway.
• A new waterfront promenade will create public space for residents and visitors.
• More parking for Sounder riders will be added.

Reclaiming The Waterfront

When WSDOT vacates the existing ferry terminal, they will leave behind many acres of land. Mukilteo should seize the opportunity to build a new transit-oriented neighborhood.

There are many parcels that are well placed for redevelopment, including the existing Ivar’s site and the old ferry holding lanes. There are also a handful of possible sites nestled inside the new terminal, including a parcel east of the new stormwater treatment facility, and another east of NOAA.

Buildings could be as tall as four stories without obstructing the view from houses up on the bluff. With ground-floor retail, and three residential floors, this could provide Mukilteo with about 400 housing units and a vibrant commercial district.

A few other minor changes could further improve safety and mobility for the new neighborhood:

• A sky bridge across the train tracks, connecting the terminal to Prospect Avenue, would improve access to both Sounder platforms, and would provide a convenient connection between Upper Mukilteo, Sounder, the waterfront, and the ferries.
• There is currently just one at-grade railroad crossing in Mukilteo, just where the Boeing spur meets the BNSF mainline. Replacing the crossing with a grade-separated bridge would improve safety and reduce train delays.

Conclusion

It’s not every day that an important port city opens up acres of prime coastal land. Mukilteo has a once-in-a-lifetime chance to revitalize their waterfront and create a transit-oriented neighborhood. Let’s make sure that it doesn’t pass up this opportunity.

From here (write-up by myself): www.theurbanist.org/2014/03/17/mukilteos-unique-opportunity/