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Post by sven on Feb 12, 2010 8:21:59 GMT -8
CLF's website says service not running. I wonder what is up? Anyone see the Runner today?
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Post by NMcKay on Feb 12, 2010 12:58:05 GMT -8
i have a feeling due to the olympics, they would have problems getting anywhere near downtown
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 13, 2010 17:15:21 GMT -8
i have a feeling due to the olympics, they would have problems getting anywhere near downtown In announcing their extra Olympics service, CLF specifically said they had been given clearance to operate in the 'exclusive' zone which includes the Bute St. dock. However, they also had earlier announced a deal with the SCRD to use the Hopkins Landing dock for Gibsons service, when no such deal had actually transpired. The interruption in service occured on the first day of their Olympics schedule, so make of that what you will. I sent CLF an email, and Capt. Shaker replied that the situation is "temporary". No further explanation. English Bay Launch says they have had no contact with CLF, and were told of the service stoppage by customers. They're covering CLF sailings, and had previously even purchased another boat, so it looks like they're in the market to stay. It seems absurd that a small passenger ferry operation to Bowen Island would even need security clearance to operate during the Olympics- from a non-Olympic location- but that's just another indication of how much power this thing has over so many people's livelihoods right now, like it or not.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Feb 14, 2010 11:13:40 GMT -8
Well lets see. Since Gibsons was announced before real permission was granted, and since it was mentioned BCF's parking lot could be used before permission was granted...could it possibly be that there was an announcement of service before permission was granted security or otherwise? Just sayin or askin. Perhaps that dock has special uses designated we don't know anything about. Or... could it be someone has charter the Runner for some to-ing and fro-ing? Better to run around some media types or whoevers for $ and just disappear from your regular customers to recoup some revenue? Or could it be that the "sort of mentioned other person involved" is exercising some control or financial muscle? Get a few young starlet types, a guy without a shirt, and the pre-requisite villan, and you have all the makings of a Soap. "As the Waverunner Runs... or Not."
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Post by sven on Feb 14, 2010 15:03:43 GMT -8
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 15, 2010 15:27:15 GMT -8
Even though it was reported- and confirmed- that the Coastal Runner was arrested on Friday, this is what the North Shore Outlook is reporting today:
Coastal Link Ferries Limited, the company running weekday trips from 14th Street Pier to downtown's Bute Street Dock in Coal Harbour, is awaiting a motor part, the ferry company's owner Ihab Shaker said. Costal Link Ferries Limited had planned to add extra service during the Olympics. "The boat had a problem today and we don't know how long it will take to fix," Shaker said.
Looks to me like English Bay Launch is making a concerted effort to poach CLF's customers, covering all their runs. From Mike Shannon of EBL:
As a promotion to our new service and new customers all commuters are encouraged to stop by the Snug Cafe for a free coffee and pastry on us. Pastries and coffee will also be available on the boats.
It's getting nasty in the minnow tank.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Feb 15, 2010 17:20:33 GMT -8
Marketing/Customer Service 101 is that you give people something they can count on. Now it is entirely possible that the Runner was arrested over a non-payment of a bill etc. and there was a mechanical problem today and waiting for a part. However, the website doesn't give any details. Perhaps the customers are so well known and a tight knit little group that they are all being kept abreast of things by email. Perhaps not.
A key component of customer confidence in a service you rely on, is being able to trust that you will be kept updated and what you are told is clear. As many companies know and some are just starting to learn, there is no keeping the lid on anything with the world of the internet. Little fibs, jumping to conclusions and bravado not backed up, all hurt your effort in the long haul.
I don't see the other service as poaching at all. Business is all about creating opportunity and when opportunity presents itself, stepping into a void. Once a customer changes patterns it can be very difficult to change them back. So that is why you see companies match or honour a competitors offers/coupons. Habit is a very powerful part of your customer loyalty.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 15, 2010 17:42:55 GMT -8
I don't see the other service as poaching at all. Business is all about creating opportunity and when opportunity presents itself, stepping into a void. Once a customer changes patterns it can be very difficult to change them back. So that is why you see companies match or honour a competitors offers/coupons. Habit is a very powerful part of your customer loyalty. One man's poaching is another man's opportunity. If you're stepping into the breach of a competitor's temporary (?) shutdown, providing their usual service with your own vessels, and offering free goodies, as well as telling the public that you've bought a new boat to upgrade your service, I'd say that's being opportunistic to the point of poaching. Not to mention that EBL's Mike Shannon was given a mild rebuke from the operator of the Bowen forum for using it as free advertising to promote all this. Whatever. Business does what business does, and I might do the same in EBL's situation. There is barely room for one passenger service to Bowen, let alone two, and this might be the shakedown that settles the battle once and for all.
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Post by whalebreath on Feb 15, 2010 22:17:33 GMT -8
It's getting nasty in the minnow tank. LOL!! Cue music to Jaws......
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Post by sven on Feb 16, 2010 6:21:20 GMT -8
llpof- the only part he is waiting for is the part about honesty. I have never met a person who is so loose with the truth.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Feb 16, 2010 7:35:33 GMT -8
As of 7:30am PST there is no further update on CLF's website. So I guess passengers will be enjoying the free coffee and muffins today again. Or maybe they have upgraded to "poached" eggs .
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Post by sven on Feb 16, 2010 8:52:08 GMT -8
The clf website says "we are no longer running" away from the truth!
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Post by Northern Exploration on Feb 16, 2010 9:20:30 GMT -8
Well that narrows the possibilities.
Simply waiting for a part wouldn't necessitate shutting down the operation.
Obviously whoever had the ship arrested either had an outstanding invoice that greatly exceeded anyone's capacity to pay, or the holder of the mortgage has taken control of the boat.
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Post by sven on Feb 16, 2010 10:44:46 GMT -8
LLPOF= Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire!!!
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 16, 2010 11:27:59 GMT -8
We regret to announce that we are no longer running.Well, I'd say that looks fairly final. Coastal Link Ferries: October 2008- February 2010. Guess I'll have to start getting notes together for the history. LLPOF= Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire!!! As a former employee of CLF you could give us some actual insights into their operation, if you'd care to do so. I would more than welcome them in PM form if you don't want to be quite so public.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Feb 17, 2010 6:15:39 GMT -8
Well that narrows the possibilities. Simply waiting for a part wouldn't necessitate shutting down the operation. Obviously whoever had the ship arrested either had an outstanding invoice that greatly exceeded anyone's capacity to pay, or the holder of the mortgage has taken control of the boat. Well the rumour strongly is the latter, a business partner has taken control of the boat. We will see what the scoup is soon I am sure.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 17, 2010 10:34:17 GMT -8
From CKNW radio:
A commuter ferry company operating between the North Shore, Coal Harbour and downtown Vancouver has halted all service. The owner of Coastal Link Ferries says his only boat was seized by a Bailiff on Friday. But Ihab Shaker says his company is financially sound. He blames the issue on a dispute with a private lender, "It's just we don't have a vessel. So we're trying to charter or lease another vessel. Unfortunately with Olympics, all the boats are engaged and somehow with Olympics so there's nothing available to lease or to charter." Shaker says his 70 person ferry was routinely sailing at capacity in the days before it was seized.
No comment required.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Feb 17, 2010 13:40:15 GMT -8
Oh comment might not be required but that never stopped me ;D. Lets see. I know routinely when an aircraft is flying at their maximum range, plus necessary reserves mandated to divert to an alternate airport or circle, that passengers or baggage or cargo is often left behind. This happens for example on a route that can experience head winds, so the trip would take more avgas than usual. So you could consider that an aircraft that can normally seat up to 300 people, might fly with 275 people and still be considered at maximum capacity for that given flight. So if you followed those mental gymnastics and bending of logic... So maybe the Runner faces a similar thing. Just maybe hidden under the seats is a shipment of gold for Brinks. You know... very heavy. So only 20 people can board and maybe despite seating 70 people, the boat can only take the weight of those 20, so could be considered to be "running at capacity." My prefered explanation though, is there is a forum conspiracy (like JFK and 9/11 etc. etc.) to only ride/view/report on the Runner when it is empty or much lower capacity. So regular riders who say there is routinely 20 or so, are actually shadow forum members who are part of the conspiracy. My second explanation though, is that forum members stand out due to our ferry geek aura and when we approach, 2/3 of the capacity passengers hide under those tables that are conveniently provided for the uses described on the website.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 17, 2010 16:18:46 GMT -8
So maybe the Runner faces a similar thing. Just maybe hidden under the seats is a shipment of gold for Brinks. You know... very heavy. So only 20 people can board and maybe despite seating 70 people, the boat can only take the weight of those 20, so could be considered to be "running at capacity." A shipment of gold every single trip? Well, maybe. Bowenites are reputed to be fairly well off. In any event, with all we've heard about CLF over the last 22 months or so, I know I would certainly trust Ihab Shaker with a load of gold. Wouldn't you? My second explanation though, is that forum members stand out due to our ferry geek aura and when we approach, 2/3 of the capacity passengers hide under those tables that are conveniently provided for the uses described on the website. There was no one under the tables. I checked. Besides, it would have been even colder down there than it was at head level. Just a thought on that ridiculous news story I posted above. I wonder if the statement that CLF had been running at capacity was aimed at some potential gullible investor. I think there are some people for whom the difference between telling the truth and not telling the truth ranks far lower than the need to say whatever happens to serve their own interests best at the moment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2010 7:15:23 GMT -8
It is sad that CLF has failed. It is sad there are many wounded people. Ihab, Peter Green, Anne Chow, the passengers who had paid for future service and will not receive it, the businesses who were counting on economic activity around such a service etc. There are no winners in this event. What is the saddest is the criticism of Ihab, from those who have not stepped up to the plate and put their own money and effort on the line. Sure we all can see many things we all would have done differently with 20/20 vision of hind sight. Ihab is no different than many entrepreneurs, he had a dream and along the way he lost the broader vision. For me rather than rejoice in the failure of CLF I look at the lessons provided. Some day, I hope that the economic conditions would exist that a service such as CLF could survive, sadly today is not that day.
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Post by sven on Feb 18, 2010 8:58:57 GMT -8
Honesty would go a long way if Ihab ever decided to go that route. However, seeing what he has said over the last little while, I doubt he has this figured out yet.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 18, 2010 12:05:54 GMT -8
It is sad that CLF has failed. It is sad there are many wounded people. Ihab, Peter Green, Anne Chow, the passengers who had paid for future service and will not receive it, the businesses who were counting on economic activity around such a service etc. There are no winners in this event. What is the saddest is the criticism of Ihab Why is that the saddest aspect of this? Did all the principals in this situation have an equal role? For me rather than rejoice in the failure of CLF I look at the lessons provided. Nobody's rejoicing in the failure, but I don't think that too many people are mystified that it happened. I suspect that the lessons learned will vary, given the differing perspectives of the principal players. Some day, I hope that the economic conditions would exist that a service such as CLF could survive, sadly today is not that day. I don't see how economic conditions can be blamed for this. After CLF failed to come to an agreement with the GLHA for docking rights, they shifted their sights to Bowen. This was done, seemingly, on the strength of some very unscientific anecdotal research and some phone calls and emails from people who said, "Hey great idea, sure I'd use your service." They apparently were also unaware that Granville Island Water Taxi was planning to start a similar service at precisely the same time. Show me one island in BC that has two successful scheduled passenger ferry services operating, even in the best of economic times. Then throw in some of the business and operating practises we've heard about, on and off the forum, and you have a recipe for certain failure.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 19, 2010 10:53:25 GMT -8
Absolutely appalling reporting here from the North Shore News, whose reporter obviously made no effort to verify anything that Capt. Shaker told her. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WV ferry scuttled by loan disputeMunisha Tumato, North Shore News Published: Friday, February 19, 2010 A struggling Ambleside ferry service that was just beginning to pick up steam sank Friday as a result of a court decision to arrest the company vessel. Coastal Link Ferries will no longer provide ferry service between West Vancouver, Vancouver and Bowen Island. Owner and operator Ihab Shaker, who launched the ferry service 16 months ago, picking up passengers from West Vancouver's 14th Street pier since mid-November, said the turn of events is "frustrating." The Coastal Runner was seized Friday after a B.C. company that holds the vessel's mortgage claimed the owner hadn't been paying his bills. Graham Walker, a lawyer for the lender, said the vessel was seized after months of missed mortgage payments. The amount owed on the vessel is $650,000, not including the accumulated interest, said Walker. But the vessel's captain emphatically denied missing any payments. "She was paid in full, on time for the entire duration of the agreement we had." The seizure came just days before the vessel, which was approved as a transport vehicle by VANOC's integrated security unit, was to be privately chartered to ferry dignitaries to West Vancouver. Shaker said that ridership has increased "tremendously" since the beginning of February with the surge of Olympic event-goers. Every one of the 70-seat vessel's hourly runs was filled to capacity on Friday, and Shaker said the phone calls and emails for bookings were flooding in. That same Friday afternoon, the vessel was arrested. "It has been a devastating weekend," said an emotional Shaker in an interview Tuesday. "Not only because of the money I've invested in the boat . . . but also because of the hard work -- waking up almost every morning at 4 a.m. for almost a year, working very hard for almost a year and a half, subsidizing the business because I knew eventually it would work. And sure enough, it did." Shaker said he went to a private investor in 2008 when he was unable to secure a bank loan to buy the Coastal Runner. When he attempted to renew the one-year contract in November, Shaker said his investor refused. It appeared that the ferry service, which struggled with low ridership in the first three months of its trial run, was beginning to garner support. Shaker said he had set up a meeting with Translink to discuss the possibility of a partnership that would have allowed him to unload passengers at Waterfront Station. Walker stated that the seizure of the Coastal Runner had "nothing whatsoever" to do with the Olympics. He said his client was concerned for her security as mortgagee when, after six months of effort, a satisfactory arrangement could not be reached. "She decided that she needed to take steps and the timing was just what it was: timing." Shaker speculates his investor is interested in taking over the operation of the ferry business, a claim that Walker did not deny, saying his client would pursue "whatever appears to us to be the most beneficial solution" to recover the money owed on the boat. "It is very, very unfortunate, because it was such a well received service," said Shaker. "It was the right boat, the right schedule, the right price, the right destination. It was the right concept. In the past, no one came close to achieving what I achieved in a year and a half." The idea of establishing a commuter ferry link between West Vancouver and Vancouver was last proposed in council in 1999, but was eventually abandoned because of concerns over cost and viability. © North Shore News 2010 www2.canada.com/northshorenews/news/story.html?id=8153ff21-fe99-4853-b7a1-7b756cec60a4
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2010 14:22:36 GMT -8
Some day, I hope that the economic conditions would exist that a service such as CLF could survive, sadly today is not that day. I don't see how economic conditions can be blamed for this. When I was referring to the economic conditions I was meaning that in BC with BCF and TransLink there is little chance a private operator can ever operate at a profit as the traveling public have been conditioned to expect subsidized ferry transport. So it if virtually impossible to charge a fare that will pay the bills. Any private service is bound to fail until that condition changes.
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Post by fargowolf on Feb 19, 2010 15:39:52 GMT -8
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