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Post by WettCoast on Jan 3, 2024 23:21:19 GMT -8
The capacity difference between the QoNWM & a Coastal is fairly major. I believe BCFS has committed to always running Spirits on odd hour sailings on route 1, except during refits when an almost as large Coastal will be substituted.
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Post by Dane on Jan 4, 2024 21:30:48 GMT -8
BCFS needs to publish a realistic schedule for Route 1 when there's a prolonged issue, such as the CI's slow crossings which obviously don't have an immediate end in sight.
The CCel received such a realistic schedule in Fall 2023, why not now?
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Post by WettCoast on Jan 4, 2024 22:46:42 GMT -8
BCFS needs to publish a realistic schedule for Route 1 when there's a prolonged issue, such as the CI's slow crossings which obviously don't have an immediate end in sight. The CCel received such a realistic schedule in Fall 2023, why not now? Why did they do the swap if the CI is in the same condition as the CC? Coastal class, all three of them, either broken down or lame. What gives? Also, why is BCFS giving this as the reason for the CI falling so far behind schedule?
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Post by Ollie on Jan 4, 2024 23:09:07 GMT -8
BCFS needs to publish a realistic schedule for Route 1 when there's a prolonged issue, such as the CI's slow crossings which obviously don't have an immediate end in sight. The CCel received such a realistic schedule in Fall 2023, why not now? Why did they do the swap if the CI is in the same condition as the CC? Coastal class, all three of them, either broken down or lame. What gives? Also, why is BCFS giving this as the reason for the CI falling so far behind schedule?
BC Ferries probably doesn't want people to realize that all their fancy new Coastal ferries are broken.
The Inspiration has been like this for a while though, I can't remember when this problem started. It doesn't cause any issues on Route 30.
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Post by Mike on Jan 5, 2024 12:15:13 GMT -8
Why did they do the swap if the CI is in the same condition as the CC? Coastal class, all three of them, either broken down or lame. What gives? Also, why is BCFS giving this as the reason for the CI falling so far behind schedule?
BC Ferries probably doesn't want people to realize that all their fancy new Coastal ferries are broken.
The Inspiration has been like this for a while though, I can't remember when this problem started. It doesn't cause any issues on Route 30.
Since when are 15+ year old ferries considered new?
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Post by Ollie on Jan 5, 2024 12:24:08 GMT -8
BC Ferries probably doesn't want people to realize that all their fancy new Coastal ferries are broken.
The Inspiration has been like this for a while though, I can't remember when this problem started. It doesn't cause any issues on Route 30.
Since when are 15+ year old ferries considered new? They are still the newest major route ferries. Compared to all the other ferries they seem very new.
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Post by WettCoast on Jan 5, 2024 17:13:54 GMT -8
Since when are 15+ year old ferries considered new? Though the Coastals may not be 'brand new' anymore, they are less than half the age of the next 'youngest' vessels among the eleven majors. Compared to the New West, they are just 'kids'. And, at the moment, they are all giving BC Ferries and their reputation a lot of grief.
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QoNW Fan
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Post by QoNW Fan on Jan 5, 2024 22:09:09 GMT -8
So is there something broken that's preventing the Coastal Inspiration from going through Active Pass? We've heard a lot about The Celebration's propeller system issues being the cause for avoiding Active Pass, but I am curious what's wrong with the Inspiration? Thanks in advance.
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Post by Ollie on Jan 5, 2024 22:41:46 GMT -8
So is there something broken that's preventing the Coastal Inspiration from going through Active Pass? We've heard a lot about The Celebration's propeller system issues being the cause for avoiding Active Pass, but I am curious what's wrong with the Inspiration? Thanks in advance. I don’t think BC Ferries has said anything about the Inspiration’s problems yet but it’s probably a similar issue to the Celebration. It can still go through Active Pass going one way so it might not be as bad as the Celebration’s issues.
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Post by articulated on Jan 6, 2024 21:41:50 GMT -8
Let's do a reality check here. As stated above, the Coastal class is now 15 years old. Even with the extended lifespan of BC/west-coast ferries of 40-50 years, they are now over one-quarter of the way through their lifespan; and just five years from now, they'll be at the midpoint of their lives. And to be honest, if you look at many other parts of the world where the life expectancy of a passenger ferry is closer to 20 years, the Coastal class should be getting in line for their seniors discount cards. They should under no circumstances be considered "new" vessels. And it's completely unrealistic for certain members on this forum to expect that 15-year-old vessels should never ever experience a breakdown.
I am also beginning to suspect that the lack of an adequate spare ratio of major vessels may have led to deferred maintenance among the fleet, which has led to the problems the Coastal class is experiencing. Especially if, as mentioned above, the issues with the Coastal Inspiration have been ongoing for a number of months to years, and still has not been fixed. The past couple of years have not been great, with two consecutive summers having one of the Spirit class gone for their mid-life overhauls for the entire off-seasons; meaning the three Coastal class have had to spend extra time working during the off seasons, which more than probably shortened the time available for their own refits.
And FYI, if the Coastal class are still the "newest" major vessels in BC Ferries' fleet, that is solely the fault of BC Ferries for not better managing their fleet plan to space out new vessel deliveries.
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Post by Ollie on Jan 6, 2024 22:27:43 GMT -8
Let's do a reality check here. As stated above, the Coastal class is now 15 years old. Even with the extended lifespan of BC/west-coast ferries of 40-50 years, they are now over one-quarter of the way through their lifespan; and just five years from now, they'll be at the midpoint of their lives. And to be honest, if you look at many other parts of the world where the life expectancy of a passenger ferry is closer to 20 years, the Coastal class should be getting in line for their seniors discount cards. They should under no circumstances be considered "new" vessels. And it's completely unrealistic for certain members on this forum to expect that 15-year-old vessels should never ever experience a breakdown. I am also beginning to suspect that the lack of an adequate spare ratio of major vessels may have led to deferred maintenance among the fleet, which has led to the problems the Coastal class is experiencing. Especially if, as mentioned above, the issues with the Coastal Inspiration have been ongoing for a number of months to years, and still has not been fixed. The past couple of years have not been great, with two consecutive summers having one of the Spirit class gone for their mid-life overhauls for the entire off-seasons; meaning the three Coastal class have had to spend extra time working during the off seasons, which more than probably shortened the time available for their own refits. And FYI, if the Coastal class are still the "newest" major vessels in BC Ferries' fleet, that is solely the fault of BC Ferries for not better managing their fleet plan to space out new vessel deliveries. I expect all ferries to last 60+ years. The problem is that they all broke at the same time, maybe BC Ferries just got unlucky.
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QoNW Fan
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Post by QoNW Fan on Jan 6, 2024 23:14:39 GMT -8
Let's do a reality check here. As stated above, the Coastal class is now 15 years old. Even with the extended lifespan of BC/west-coast ferries of 40-50 years, they are now over one-quarter of the way through their lifespan; and just five years from now, they'll be at the midpoint of their lives. And to be honest, if you look at many other parts of the world where the life expectancy of a passenger ferry is closer to 20 years, the Coastal class should be getting in line for their seniors discount cards. They should under no circumstances be considered "new" vessels. And it's completely unrealistic for certain members on this forum to expect that 15-year-old vessels should never ever experience a breakdown. I am also beginning to suspect that the lack of an adequate spare ratio of major vessels may have led to deferred maintenance among the fleet, which has led to the problems the Coastal class is experiencing. Especially if, as mentioned above, the issues with the Coastal Inspiration have been ongoing for a number of months to years, and still has not been fixed. The past couple of years have not been great, with two consecutive summers having one of the Spirit class gone for their mid-life overhauls for the entire off-seasons; meaning the three Coastal class have had to spend extra time working during the off seasons, which more than probably shortened the time available for their own refits. And FYI, if the Coastal class are still the "newest" major vessels in BC Ferries' fleet, that is solely the fault of BC Ferries for not better managing their fleet plan to space out new vessel deliveries. The ferries that were built in the 1960's had a lifespan of 40-50 years, but I would think a ferry build in the late 2000's would last a little longer, right? Maybe I'm wrong, they still seem so new to me haha, can't believe it's already been 15 years!
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Post by WettCoast on Jan 7, 2024 10:50:48 GMT -8
Let's do a reality check here. As stated above, the Coastal class is now 15 years old. Even with the extended lifespan of BC/west-coast ferries of 40-50 years, they are now over one-quarter of the way through their lifespan; and just five years from now, they'll be at the midpoint of their lives. And to be honest, if you look at many other parts of the world where the life expectancy of a passenger ferry is closer to 20 years, the Coastal class should be getting in line for their seniors discount cards. They should under no circumstances be considered "new" vessels. And it's completely unrealistic for certain members on this forum to expect that 15-year-old vessels should never ever experience a breakdown. I am also beginning to suspect that the lack of an adequate spare ratio of major vessels may have led to deferred maintenance among the fleet, which has led to the problems the Coastal class is experiencing. Especially if, as mentioned above, the issues with the Coastal Inspiration have been ongoing for a number of months to years, and still has not been fixed. The past couple of years have not been great, with two consecutive summers having one of the Spirit class gone for their mid-life overhauls for the entire off-seasons; meaning the three Coastal class have had to spend extra time working during the off seasons, which more than probably shortened the time available for their own refits. And FYI, if the Coastal class are still the "newest" major vessels in BC Ferries' fleet, that is solely the fault of BC Ferries for not better managing their fleet plan to space out new vessel deliveries. WSF is okay with 80 year old vessels. Many (at least in Facebook land) think that the Coho, now 65 years in service, is good for another 20. The Coastals, at just 15 years, are, just 'kids', about the same age as the V-class was in 1980 when BC Ferries was about to spend a great deal of money expanding their capacity for the third time.
You are right on the money about BC Ferries dragging their feet over the last decade when it come to new vessels and expanded capacity. Things might have been different had it not been for the large but temporary drop in demand caused by COVID in 2020. So here we are now in 2024 with our newest vessels being our most troubled, unsatisfactory reliability, and demand growing year by year as the population in the area served grows. And no new vessels until 2029, five years from now. Not good enough.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jan 7, 2024 22:15:23 GMT -8
Let's do a reality check here. As stated above, the Coastal class is now 15 years old. Even with the extended lifespan of BC/west-coast ferries of 40-50 years, they are now over one-quarter of the way through their lifespan; and just five years from now, they'll be at the midpoint of their lives. And to be honest, if you look at many other parts of the world where the life expectancy of a passenger ferry is closer to 20 years, the Coastal class should be getting in line for their seniors discount cards. They should under no circumstances be considered "new" vessels. And it's completely unrealistic for certain members on this forum to expect that 15-year-old vessels should never ever experience a breakdown. I am also beginning to suspect that the lack of an adequate spare ratio of major vessels may have led to deferred maintenance among the fleet, which has led to the problems the Coastal class is experiencing. Especially if, as mentioned above, the issues with the Coastal Inspiration have been ongoing for a number of months to years, and still has not been fixed. The past couple of years have not been great, with two consecutive summers having one of the Spirit class gone for their mid-life overhauls for the entire off-seasons; meaning the three Coastal class have had to spend extra time working during the off seasons, which more than probably shortened the time available for their own refits. And FYI, if the Coastal class are still the "newest" major vessels in BC Ferries' fleet, that is solely the fault of BC Ferries for not better managing their fleet plan to space out new vessel deliveries. WSF is okay with 80 year old vessels. Many (at least in Facebook land) think that the Coho, now 65 years in service, is good for another 20. The Coastals, at just 15 years, are, just 'kids', about the same age as the V-class was in 1980 when BC Ferries was about to spend a great deal of money expanding their capacity for the third time.
You are right on the money about BC Ferries dragging their feet over the last decade when it come to new vessels and expanded capacity. Things might have been different had it not been for the large but temporary drop in demand caused by COVID in 2020. So here we are now in 2024 with our newest vessels being our most troubled, unsatisfactory reliability, and demand growing year by year as the population in the area served grows. And no new vessels until 2029, five years from now. Not good enough.
Aren't we perhaps- once again- misplacing blame for the state of the fleet? BC Ferries can only do what the province gives them resources to do. The NDP government has been much more responsive to the need to upgrade the so-called 'minor' and intermediate fleet, but they are still shying away from the costly commitment to renew the vessels that provide the essential link between the mainland and Vancouver Island.
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Post by WettCoast on Jan 7, 2024 22:27:51 GMT -8
Aren't we perhaps- once again- misplacing blame for the state of the fleet? BC Ferries can only do what the province gives them resources to do. The NDP government has been much more responsive to the need to upgrade the so-called 'minor' and intermediate fleet, but they are still shying away from the costly commitment to renew the vessels that provide the essential link between the mainland and Vancouver Island. You are of course correct, Neil. Is this one of the bits of fallout from the quasi-privatization of BC Ferries put in place by the BC Liberals under Gordon Campbell & their current leader Kevin Falcon? BC Ferries was to manage all things 'in house' including procurement & financing of new vessels. BC Ferries is & will continue to be our 'bridge' across Georgia Strait. There will never be a fixed bridge anytime in the foreseeable future. As it is now, that bridge needs major work.
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Post by northwesterner on Jan 7, 2024 22:56:27 GMT -8
You are of course correct, Neil. Is this one of the bits of fallout from the quasi-privatization of BC Ferries put in place by the BC Liberals under Gordon Campbell & their current leader Kevin Falcon? BC Ferries was to manage all things 'in house' including procurement & financing of new vessels. BC Ferries is & will continue to be our 'bridge' across Georgia Strait. There will never be a fixed bridge anytime in the foreseeable future. As it is now, that bridge needs major work. Kevin Falcon, as I recall, was an abysmal Minister of Transportation for the province. I haven't heard that name in years and didn't realize he was back on the scene.
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Post by 1foot2ships on Jan 22, 2024 18:58:16 GMT -8
u guys know how the german boats are routing the long way around instead of going thru?
ive seen them go through lately as well. is there a rule for this like - weather conditions? - tides/ currents? - traffic volume, schedule keeping?
the reason im asking is b/c im on a northbound and we went the long way, but earlier in the day, i saw a southbound go through. can something as simple as daylight be a reason as well?
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Post by 1foot2ships on Jan 22, 2024 20:04:21 GMT -8
ok, scrap the daylight, darkness idea. the southbound is going through right now. im back to sq1 w/ these things.
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Post by gordon on Jan 23, 2024 16:08:41 GMT -8
I assume the issues that csuses the Coastals the problems with transiting Active pass will be corrected in their upcoming refits
if the do the Est bound long route @ 21 Kn they can make the crossing in 1hr34Min
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Post by WettCoast on Jan 23, 2024 17:47:14 GMT -8
ok, scrap the daylight, darkness idea. the southbound is going through right now. im back to sq1 w/ these things. As far as I can tell south bound trips go through Active Pass while north bound trips use Boundary Pass. BC ferries says the reason for the every day delays is "Earlier loading procedure is causing ongoing delay" at least according to their Departures & Arrivals info page. They don't seem to want to tell us what the real reason is. I think the issues will require more than a refit to fix. We have been dealing with the Coastal class issues on route 1 for 15 months, maybe longer?
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Post by Ollie on Jan 25, 2024 19:12:12 GMT -8
ok, scrap the daylight, darkness idea. the southbound is going through right now. im back to sq1 w/ these things. As far as I can tell south bound trips go through Active Pass while north bound trips use Boundary Pass. BC ferries says the reason for the every day delays is "Earlier loading procedure is causing ongoing delay" at least according to their Departures & Arrivals info page. They don't seem to want to tell us what the real reason is. I think the issues will require more than a refit to fix. We have been dealing with the Coastal class issues on route 1 for 15 months, maybe longer? BC Ferries now says that it is "unfavourable tides" that are causing this.
"For Feb 1 – Mar 3, select sailings have a slightly longer voyage (extended by 15m). Select sailings on this route are temporarily scheduled to have a duration of 1h 50m, due to unfavourable tides that require the vessel to sail east of Saturna Island."
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Jan 25, 2024 19:29:45 GMT -8
As far as I can tell south bound trips go through Active Pass while north bound trips use Boundary Pass. BC ferries says the reason for the every day delays is "Earlier loading procedure is causing ongoing delay" at least according to their Departures & Arrivals info page. They don't seem to want to tell us what the real reason is. I think the issues will require more than a refit to fix. We have been dealing with the Coastal class issues on route 1 for 15 months, maybe longer? BC Ferries now says that it is "unfavourable tides" that are causing this.
"For Feb 1 – Mar 3, select sailings have a slightly longer voyage (extended by 15m). Select sailings on this route are temporarily scheduled to have a duration of 1h 50m, due to unfavourable tides that require the vessel to sail east of Saturna Island." The statement is so vague because what vessel involved is Spirit Class and Queen of New Westminster are now doing a re-route, what sailings are doing the detour.
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Post by WettCoast on Jan 25, 2024 19:38:51 GMT -8
BC Ferries now says that it is "unfavourable tides" that are causing this.
"For Feb 1 – Mar 3, select sailings have a slightly longer voyage (extended by 15m). Select sailings on this route are temporarily scheduled to have a duration of 1h 50m, due to unfavourable tides that require the vessel to sail east of Saturna Island." Key words: "now says" ... They have been using a variety of excuses. This excuse may have a certain amount of validity. But it looks like the tides are unfavourable only when travelling north (to Tsawwassen), and only if the vessel type is a Coastal. My favourite excuse is this: " Substitute vessel (Inspiration) is slower than our regular vessel (Spirit of BC)". This get the "dog ate my homework" award for a very poor excuse.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Jan 25, 2024 19:46:53 GMT -8
BC Ferries now says that it is "unfavourable tides" that are causing this.
"For Feb 1 – Mar 3, select sailings have a slightly longer voyage (extended by 15m). Select sailings on this route are temporarily scheduled to have a duration of 1h 50m, due to unfavourable tides that require the vessel to sail east of Saturna Island." Key words: "now says" ... They have been using a variety of excuses. This excuse may have a certain amount of validity. But it looks like the tides are unfavourable only when travelling north (to Tsawwassen), and only if the vessel type is a Coastal. I think once Coastal get new driver motors they will be able to safely go through active pass. I do think drivers motors on Coastal Class are causing problem for the class.
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Post by WettCoast on Jan 25, 2024 20:05:26 GMT -8
Key words: "now says" ... They have been using a variety of excuses. This excuse may have a certain amount of validity. But it looks like the tides are unfavourable only when travelling north (to Tsawwassen), and only if the vessel type is a Coastal. I think once Coastal get new driver motors they will be able to safely go through active pass. I do think drivers motors on Coastal Class are causing problem for the class. My understanding is the problem is an unavailable 'prime mover', the diesel gensets that provide electric power to the drive motors which turn the props.
A quote: One of the safety limitations for the Coastal Class is to have 4 prime mover engines/generators available for transiting Active Pass. The Coastal Class have one electric drive motor at each end, that turns their respective propeller. Mode 1 (one propeller turning) can be achieved with any two primer mover/generators running. However, in order to run Mode 2 (two propellers turning), there has to be a minimum of 3 prime mover/generators running. Typically they will sail all day long with 3 prime movers running. The fourth prime mover/generator is typically left turned off or in standby mode to quickly flash up and connect to the switchboard on short notice if one of the other prime movers has an issue. The fourth prime mover is also used to gain a bit more speed and to have full power availability during maneuvers in strong winds. As for Active Pass, it's a matter of available redundancy if something were to happen to the generators at the same time as requiring mode 2 in Active Pass. As we all know, there's far less room for error while navigating Active Pass compared to navigating Boundary Pass. When you're running a diesel electric ship, you're always taking the power consumption and power availability into consideration. Otherwise if you don't, "poof!"...the ship may black out as a worst case scenario. Then it takes time to reset a number of breakers. Similar to blowing a circuit breaker at your house, except in this case you can lose propulsion. Therefore, if only 3 prime movers are available, then the decision is made to avoid Active Pass until the fourth prime mover is available again. The Spirits also have a similar limitation, however I'm not totally familiar with their propulsion system.
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