PACIFICAT EXPLORER, DISCOVERY, VOYAGER - Photos & Discussion

[dave2]

Jul 22, 2018 22:01:47 GMT -8 princessofvanfan said:

Funny how the B.C.N.D.P. has had two of their B.C. Ferries projects tossed out the window upon being defeated in an election - the Gabriola Island - Iona Island route by the Socreds in 1975 and the FastCats by the Liberals in 2001.

To be fair, the PacifiCats were removed from service and put up for sale by the NDP government in the winter of 2000.

[princessofvanfan]

True, but the Liberals practically gave them away.

[vancouverecho]

Jul 23, 2018 23:07:18 GMT -8 princessofvanfan said:

True, but the Liberals practically gave them away.

And look what happened afterwords. They were laid up, unused by the shipyard for years before the shipyard was able to flip them to another buyer in the UAE, where they sat again, before ending up in Egypt, again laid up.

Nobody wanted them, and that kinda puts a big damper on the sale price.

[princessofvanfan]

Jul 24, 2018 0:34:43 GMT -8 vancouverecho said:

Jul 23, 2018 23:07:18 GMT -8 princessofvanfan said:

True, but the Liberals practically gave them away.

And look what happened afterwords. They were laid up, unused by the shipyard for years before the shipyard was able to flip them to another buyer in the UAE, where they sat again, before ending up in Egypt, again laid up.

Nobody wanted them, and that kinda puts a big damper on the sale price.

Yes, but there was also speculation at the time that the Liberals let them go for so little ($10 million apiece, wasn't it?) as a way of making the N.D.P. look just a little more inept and wasteful with taxpayers money. Joy McPhail called the whole fiasco a "failed experiment". Quite the understatement.

[vancouverecho]

Jul 24, 2018 12:34:49 GMT -8 princessofvanfan said:

Jul 24, 2018 0:34:43 GMT -8 vancouverecho said:

And look what happened afterwords. They were laid up, unused by the shipyard for years before the shipyard was able to flip them to another buyer in the UAE, where they sat again, before ending up in Egypt, again laid up.

Nobody wanted them, and that kinda puts a big damper on the sale price.

Yes, but there was also speculation at the time that the Liberals let them go for so little ($10 million apiece, wasn't it?) as a way of making the N.D.P. look just a little more inept and wasteful with taxpayers money. Joy McPhail called the whole fiasco a "failed experiment". Quite the understatement.

Considering how all 3 ships have sat unused since their sale, I guess their sale value at the time was no better than scrap value because no one could find a use for them.

[timmyc]

Looks like the 'Cats are back in the UAE if I'm interpreting the photos here correctly - last two seem to show them pierside at a shipyard that just did an extensive yacht rebuild of an old frigate: www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/23607/the-striking-and-fast-superyacht-yaz-was-born-from-a-40-year-old-dutch-frigates-hull

[FNS]

Sept 17, 2018 12:17:08 GMT -8 timmyc said:

Looks like the 'Cats are back in the UAE if I'm interpreting the photos here correctly - last two seem to show them pierside at a shipyard that just did an extensive yacht rebuild of an old frigate: www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/23607/the-striking-and-fast-superyacht-yaz-was-born-from-a-40-year-old-dutch-frigates-hull

I think the Pacificats are still in Egypt after looking at Google Earth's timeline feature.  They have been there since late 2014.  This article says: "... would reemerge from Abu Dhabi's ADMShipyards after three years of work as Yaz—one of the world's largest, fastest, and certainly most unique superyachts. But it wouldn't be until 2015 that she would be fully outfitted and delivered in a fully operational state."

[timmyc]

Ach, you're right: "In satellite imagery, the last date we see the stripped hull of the proposed Swift131 outside ADMShipyards is in late October 2013."

[Low Light Mike]

Here's a story from Nanaimo News Bulletin today:
from HERE

Yes, posting this story here in this thread creates a circular vortex....

Fast ferries from B.C. spotted in Egypt
Controversial aluminum BC Ferries vessels ’big white elephants covered in dust,’ eyewitness says

DAN FERGUSON
Oct. 23, 2018 3:45 a.m.NEWS


Two of the fast cat vessels that nearly bankrupted BC Ferries and led to the downfall of the provincial government that approved them ended up sitting idle in a Egyptian harbour.

The catamarans were spotted tied up at the port of Alexandria earlier this year.

In a July 22 post to the ferriesbc.proboards.com message board, “highlander” said he saw the pair tied up on a “long jetty beside some naval ships,” and it looked like they had been sitting idle for some time.

“They look very neglected and COLD STACKED (mothballed) as we say in the oil industry,” the posting said.

“They just look like two big white elephants covered in dust now.”

Attempts at contacting the port, which was described as a combined military and commercial operation, were not successful.

There had been reports that the catamarans Pacificat Discovery, Pacificat Explorer and the Pacificat Voyager were going to be used to ferry workers and supplies to oil rigs off the Egyptian coast.

However, “highlander,” who works in the oil and gas industry, doubted the ships could remain “on station,” holding position in order to load and offload crews and supplies.

Provincial cabinet documents detailing discussions about the fast cats were released under the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act (FOIPPA) to an unnamed “researcher” and posted on the B.C,. government website.

They show that just before the provincial government decided to dock the ferries and put them up for sale, there was a tentative deal to build two more, smaller catamarans for sale to an American corporation to run between Jamestown, New York and Toronto on the Great Lakes.

That would have required more government subsidies, however, and by then, the project was so deeply mired in debt due to cost overruns that the provincial government decided to cut its losses.

The documents show provincial cabinet ministers were told the ‘cats’, which were supposed to replace the conventional “C” class ferries on the Horsehoe Bay – Departure Bay run, were expensive and unreliable.

“The fast ferries have not performed according to original expectations,” a confidential briefing note observed.

“ … the fast ferries have approximately double the fuel and maintenance costs compared to the C-class vessels.”

They could not carry heavy commercial and recreational vehicles, and required an “intensive maintenance schedule” said the report, which put the cost at $19 million a year more than the C-class ferries.

Opportunities to sell the aluminum catamarans to other fast ferry operators were limited by the fact the B.C.-built ships had been designated “sheltered waters vessels,” so they couldn’t be used in many locations such as the English Channel and the Irish sea.

It’s estimated the BC Ferry Corporation lost $400 million on the fast ferries.

The controversy over the cost of the failed fast ferry program is considered to be a factor in the defeat of the NDP government of the day and the election of the Liberals, who eventually sold the three ferries in 2003 to the Washington Marine Group for $19.4 million, less than five per cent of what they cost to build.

In 2009, the three vessels were sold to a luxury yacht builder in Abu Dhabi, the capital of the United Arab Emirates in the Persian Gulf.

A Google Earth satellite image showed them tied up on the dock, and a promotional photo of a luxury yacht showed the dust-covered ferries in the background.

The new owners reportedly planned to operate them as a regional ferry service, but that didn’t happen.

In 2014, according to a Wikipedia entry for the fast cats, all three ferries were donated by the U.A.E. to the Egyptian government for use in the oil and gas industry.

[Starsteward]

If the 'Cats' were designed for 'sheltered water' service only, I assume that was a Transport Canada designation? Would they have actually been allowed to
be used servicing the oil rigs off the Egyptian coast?

[FNS]

Oct 24, 2018 12:36:01 GMT -8 Starsteward said:

If the 'Cats' were designed for 'sheltered water' service only, I assume that was a Transport Canada designation? Would they have actually been allowed to
be used servicing the oil rigs off the Egyptian coast?

Interesting questions.

If I'm not mistaking, our Salish Sea is considered an "inland sea".  Is the Mediterranean Sea considered an "open sea"?

[Starsteward]

Oct 24, 2018 14:44:01 GMT -8 FNS said:

Oct 24, 2018 12:36:01 GMT -8 Starsteward said:

If the 'Cats' were designed for 'sheltered water' service only, I assume that was a Transport Canada designation? Would they have actually been allowed to
be used servicing the oil rigs off the Egyptian coast?

Interesting questions.

If I'm not mistaking, our Salish Sea is considered an "inland sea".  Is the Mediterranean Sea considered an "open sea"?

     I do believe the 'Med.' is considered 'open sea'. That body of water is very often prone to very windy conditions with winds blowing off the African continent and also
wind events that originate in the Balkans.
     Transport Canada regulations etc. may not be recognized in that part of the world?

[avgeekjoe]

Jul 24, 2018 15:54:39 GMT -8 vancouverecho said:

Jul 24, 2018 12:34:49 GMT -8 princessofvanfan said:

Yes, but there was also speculation at the time that the Liberals let them go for so little ($10 million apiece, wasn't it?) as a way of making the N.D.P. look just a little more inept and wasteful with taxpayers money. Joy McPhail called the whole fiasco a "failed experiment". Quite the understatement.

Considering how all 3 ships have sat unused since their sale, I guess their sale value at the time was no better than scrap value because no one could find a use for them.

I think their only use, looking back, was to sit pretty for 2.5 terms of Premiership or the time Gordon Muir Campbell had to serve as the greatest Premier of BC.  The .5 stands for the PacifiCat Voyager ;-). 


I mean, think about it!  Those PacifiCats were quite the visual reminders of the 1990s' BCNDP: Sleaze, gross incompetence and socialism bordering on the Soviet Union.  At least today's BCNDP under John Horgan, Claire Trevena and "BadAssBowinn" Ma are more... mature and pragmatic.

[avgeekjoe]

Sept 17, 2018 12:17:08 GMT -8 timmyc said:

Looks like the 'Cats are back in the UAE if I'm interpreting the photos here correctly - last two seem to show them pierside at a shipyard that just did an extensive yacht rebuild of an old frigate: www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/23607/the-striking-and-fast-superyacht-yaz-was-born-from-a-40-year-old-dutch-frigates-hull

You got it right, I'd recognize those Pacific Kitties anywhere!  :-)

[Neil]

Nov 24, 2018 22:19:36 GMT -8 avgeekjoe said:

Jul 24, 2018 15:54:39 GMT -8 vancouverecho said:

Considering how all 3 ships have sat unused since their sale, I guess their sale value at the time was no better than scrap value because no one could find a use for them.

I think their only use, looking back, was to sit pretty for 2.5 terms of Premiership or the time Gordon Muir Campbell had to serve as the greatest Premier of BC.  The .5 stands for the PacifiCat Voyager ;-). 


I mean, think about it!  Those PacifiCats were quite the visual reminders of the 1990s' BCNDP: Sleaze, gross incompetence and socialism bordering on the Soviet Union.  At least today's BCNDP under John Horgan, Claire Trevena and "BadAssBowinn" Ma are more... mature and pragmatic.

Is it a positive indication of this forum's stature that we can still attract trolls? Not sure about that.

[avgeekjoe]

I'm no troll, if you check my profile you'll see I post on other threads about ferries than the highly political PacifiCats.

[Mike C]

Nov 24, 2018 22:19:36 GMT -8 avgeekjoe said:

Jul 24, 2018 15:54:39 GMT -8 vancouverecho said:

Considering how all 3 ships have sat unused since their sale, I guess their sale value at the time was no better than scrap value because no one could find a use for them.

I think their only use, looking back, was to sit pretty for 2.5 terms of Premiership or the time Gordon Muir Campbell had to serve as the greatest Premier of BC.  The .5 stands for the PacifiCat Voyager ;-). 


I mean, think about it!  Those PacifiCats were quite the visual reminders of the 1990s' BCNDP: Sleaze, gross incompetence and socialism bordering on the Soviet Union.

There’s a lot to unpack here, but ultimately this really does come off as political trolling. You’ve come at our forum with a barrage of hot takes this evening, I would strongly suggest some moderation.

[avgeekjoe]

Copy that Mike C, congrats on 5,001 posts BTW!  Going to be posting a lot more here as I make the great ferry loop of Anacortes-Sidney-Swartz Bay-Tsawwassen next weekend    .

[avgeekjoe]

Nov 11, 2005 12:09:29 GMT -8 Ferryman said:

Here's an idea...
www.sfu.ca/casr/mp-navalsc4.htm

Thank goodness for Web archive - it's a smart idea really.

[markkarj]

I wonder what will ultimately be the fate of these ships. They seem to have spent the better part of the past two decades moored.

[Neil]

NEWS FLASH!!! DAILY HIVE, A VANCOUVER ONLINE NEWS SOURCE, HAS SPOTTED THE PACIFICATS IN ALEXANDRIA, EGYPT!!! 


dailyhive.com/vancouver/bc-fast-ferries-pacificats

Oh, Wait... 

We're the West Coast Ferries Forum, and this was already reported here a few days ago... well, back in 2015, to be exact. Intrepid reporter 'FNS' established the find.

Such is the state of media these days. Who knows if 'Daily Hive' actually has any real reporters, or if they just aggregate stories people happen to come upon.

[gartay1]

[avgeekjoe]

Nice Minecraft of the legendary PacifiCats... but I have YouTubes of the Catamaran Ferries International CD videos: www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMN7G4e16HTZNIQTr07i4FZjDsRPh8gpC

[markkarj]

Would there be any value in the Pacificats' engines or any other componentry after 20 years of minimal use? Or do the ships basically just have scrap value?

I remember one report (when I worked at CKNW) that spoke to pulling out the high-speed engines, equipping them with conventional diesels, and running them as conventional ferries. Neither the NDP on their way out nor the Liberals on their way in wanted to throw good money after bad.

[cbachmeier]

I was reading a report about environmental efficiency for the Pacificat fast ferries, and apparently a study showed that the wake of 1 pacificat vessel pulling into Departure Bay was bigger and stronger then the wake of all 5 C-class ships combined.