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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 14, 2009 7:41:31 GMT -8
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Oct 14, 2009 10:27:24 GMT -8
In my amateur exploring, I have read reports, media releases, done research, talked to the trucking industry, small businesses, and have had verbal conversations and emails with Tourism Vancouver Island and the Nanaimo Chamber of Commerce. Through out all that I have been able to get numbers through these sources. Requesting figures from BCF is similar to being slammed into the end boards of an ice rink. I have been continuously denied. In the end, the NCC and Tourism VI do disagree with what BCF is doing. In the long run, cutting sailings makes ridership decline even further. That is what has happened on Saturday evenings with route 30 and it has led to having the last two trips on that route not sail for an even longer part of the year. I have a feeling that is what will happen on route 2. The statistics don't support your assertions. BC Ferries cut the Saturday evening sailings in the fall of '06. Yet, since 2005, route 30 is the only one of the three major strait crossings to have had increases each fiscal year in both AEQs and passengers, through '08*. This, despite a radically worsening economy recently. Clearly, the cuts did little other than move traffic to other sailings, making boats better utilized. That waiting list number is minimal compared to Montreal. The Canucks are not that upset about Islanders that cannot return home on a Saturday night but, they are concerned and keep statistics on how many Islanders come to the games as well as folks from other areas of the province. I did not say that Islanders purchase season tickets to the Canucks, just mini packs. Never mind the Salmon Kings but, do not forget about the other island based BCHL franchises, the Capitals and Bulldogs. The 2245h sailing on either side is very important for island based and Lower Mainland teams and their fans who join them on road trips. Island teams that play in Surrey or Burnaby do try for the 2245h. The same goes for mainland teams that play in Nanaimo. Now this cannot be done on any Saturday night through out the season, playoffs included. The further reduction on route 30 does affect a "wide range of people who need access to ferry crossings later at night."(as mentioned in the North Shore news article). [/font] [/quote] BC Ferries can't be expected to provide the Coastal Inspiration to get the Alberni Bulldogs and a dozen fans home from the game in Surrey. They are obliged by the Coastal Ferry Services Contract to provide a certain level of service, and by the government that created them to operate a company that is as financially viable as possible- both of which they are doing, partly through eliminating runs over the required level which have proven to be under utilized. If you were directing your complaints at the provincial government for not providing adequate funding for a service that's integral to the general quality of life on the coast, that would be a different matter, but you're criticizing BC Ferries for doing what they have been directed to do. *BC Ferry Commission reports
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 14, 2009 10:34:46 GMT -8
If you were directing your complaints at the provincial government for not providing adequate funding for a service that's integral to the general quality of life on the coast, that would be a different matter, but you're criticizing BC Ferries for doing what they have been directed to do. I made a similar comment today in our local newspaper, in reaction to a story about Nanaimo leaders wanting to complain to the Ferry Company and to the Minister about service cuts. Mr. Hahn and company have been consistently unempathetic to complaints from communities about the social & economic impact of service cuts. And that's the type of response that is required under the system set up in 2003. Productive avenues of complaint would be: - your local MLA - Minister of transportation - Premier
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Oct 14, 2009 12:26:17 GMT -8
Nanaimo Mayor John Ruttan:
"When you realize the Island has a three-to-five-day food supply, we need reliable transportation for commerce on the Island."Of course. First you cut a couple of ferries, and before you know it, there's Flugel Horn, stumbling through the woods in his Tilley, foraging for nuts and edible roots because the shelves in the Thrifty's have all gone bare. Yes, I can see the progression.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 14, 2009 13:29:10 GMT -8
Nanaimo Mayor John Ruttan:
"When you realize the Island has a three-to-five-day food supply, we need reliable transportation for commerce on the Island."Of course. First you cut a couple of ferries, and before you know it, there's Flugel Horn, stumbling through the woods in his Tilley, foraging for nuts and edible roots because the shelves in the Thrifty's have all gone bare. Yes, I can see the progression. I think I will research what people did in the lead-up to Y2K, and start building personal-infrastructure to hoard food and supplies for my family. But seriously, I think that was a lame argument for the Mayor to make. I understand that he's protecting his turf, but 1 sailing is not that critical. Maybe he's sending a message to discourage further cuts?
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Post by hwy19man on Oct 14, 2009 14:56:19 GMT -8
In my amateur exploring, I have read reports, media releases, done research, talked to the trucking industry, small businesses, and have had verbal conversations and emails with Tourism Vancouver Island and the Nanaimo Chamber of Commerce. Through out all that I have been able to get numbers through these sources. Requesting figures from BCF is similar to being slammed into the end boards of an ice rink. I have been continuously denied. In the end, the NCC and Tourism VI do disagree with what BCF is doing. In the long run, cutting sailings makes ridership decline even further. That is what has happened on Saturday evenings with route 30 and it has led to having the last two trips on that route not sail for an even longer part of the year. I have a feeling that is what will happen on route 2. The statistics don't support your assertions. BC Ferries cut the Saturday evening sailings in the fall of '06. Yet, since 2005, route 30 is the only one of the three major strait crossings to have had increases each fiscal year in both AEQs and passengers, through '08*. This, despite a radically worsening economy recently. Clearly, the cuts did little other than move traffic to other sailings, making boats better utilized. That waiting list number is minimal compared to Montreal. The Canucks are not that upset about Islanders that cannot return home on a Saturday night but, they are concerned and keep statistics on how many Islanders come to the games as well as folks from other areas of the province. I did not say that Islanders purchase season tickets to the Canucks, just mini packs. Never mind the Salmon Kings but, do not forget about the other island based BCHL franchises, the Capitals and Bulldogs. The 2245h sailing on either side is very important for island based and Lower Mainland teams and their fans who join them on road trips. Island teams that play in Surrey or Burnaby do try for the 2245h. The same goes for mainland teams that play in Nanaimo. Now this cannot be done on any Saturday night through out the season, playoffs included. The further reduction on route 30 does affect a "wide range of people who need access to ferry crossings later at night."(as mentioned in the North Shore news article). [/font] [/quote] BC Ferries can't be expected to provide the Coastal Inspiration to get the Alberni Bulldogs and a dozen fans home from the game in Surrey. They are obliged by the Coastal Ferry Services Contract to provide a certain level of service, and by the government that created them to operate a company that is as financially viable as possible- both of which they are doing, partly through eliminating runs over the required level which have proven to be under utilized. If you were directing your complaints at the provincial government for not providing adequate funding for a service that's integral to the general quality of life on the coast, that would be a different matter, but you're criticizing BC Ferries for doing what they have been directed to do. *BC Ferry Commission reports[/quote] The information the NCC and Tourism VI have told me is not my assertion. That is factual information coming from those agencies. The reasons mentioned, the economy but so is cutting sailings. Less sailings slowly erode ridership and do not move people to another, it discourages travel. That is what has happened over the past few years and David Hahn has said through media that ridership is down on all the major routes.
The Queen of Alberni would not be expected to exclusively transport the Surrey Eagles and its fans back to the mainland on a Saturday night. Crew members have said the lack of heavy truck traffic is the main reason for the Saturday evening cancellations on route 30. Non-commercial usage is consistent Monday to Thursday and Saturdays before the cuts. The usage spikes when there is a Canucks game on that night.
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Neil
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Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on Oct 14, 2009 16:00:20 GMT -8
The information the NCC and Tourism VI have told me is not my assertion. That is factual information coming from those agencies. The reasons mentioned, the economy but so is cutting sailings. Less sailings slowly erode ridership and do not move people to another, it discourages travel. That is what has happened over the past few years and David Hahn has said through media that ridership is down on all the major routes. Factual information about BC Ferries traffic figures is best gathered from BC Ferries annual reports, not from the NCC or Tourism VI. So, let's try this again, with the actual numbers: Route 30 traffic 2005- 1.36 million pax, 813k AEQ 2006- 1.39 million pax, 819k AEQ 2007- 1.47 million pax, 871k AEQ 2008- 1.53 million pax, 876k AEQ Modest increases, every year, for the period I mentioned. David Hahn was referring to major routes as a whole, and not route 30 specifically. If route 30 turns out to be down in fiscal '09, it will be because of the economy, and not the lack of Saturday night sailings. But seriously, I think that was a lame argument for the Mayor to make. I understand that he's protecting his turf, but 1 sailing is not that critical. Maybe he's sending a message to discourage further cuts? Or maybe he's taking time out from shepherding that bid for a passenger ferry service that Nanaimoites are crying out for. That must be tough work.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Oct 15, 2009 7:21:25 GMT -8
Nanaimo Mayor John Ruttan:
"When you realize the Island has a three-to-five-day food supply, we need reliable transportation for commerce on the Island."Of course. First you cut a couple of ferries, and before you know it, there's Flugel Horn, stumbling through the woods in his Tilley, foraging for nuts and edible roots because the shelves in the Thrifty's have all gone bare. Yes, I can see the progression. I think I will research what people did in the lead-up to Y2K, and start building personal-infrastructure to hoard food and supplies for my family. But seriously, I think that was a lame argument for the Mayor to make. I understand that he's protecting his turf, but 1 sailing is not that critical. Maybe he's sending a message to discourage further cuts? On another forum I am on there is a pot stirring icon, so just picture it in your mind as you read. BC Ferries should be commended for the berthing this sailing even if it is only part time. They are just trying to be green and force Islanders to grow more of their own food and institute the 100 mile diet. Besides the urgent shipments of Ramen or Udon noodles from Japan, to keep the noodle shops stocked, what really couldn't VI residents not grow for themselves. Look at Sooke Harbour House where you eat seaweed from the shore in front of the restaurant, flowers out of the garden, and who knows what, all very local. Just think with fewer ferries, maybe Islanders will start milking their own cows, feeding their table scraps back to the pigs, and gather their own eggs for breakfast each morning. And the extra wiff of the fertilizer off products, will keep those pesky developers away. The Great Wallmart will close because fewer shipments of China made products will be hard to import. Mom and Pop stores will once again reopen. Joe's hardware will reopen on mainstreet (sorry Donella CT will close.) Life on the Islands will return to the Leave it to Beaver age and all will be good. Sound like Utopia?
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Oct 15, 2009 7:35:13 GMT -8
I think I will research what people did in the lead-up to Y2K, and start building personal-infrastructure to hoard food and supplies for my family. But seriously, I think that was a lame argument for the Mayor to make. I understand that he's protecting his turf, but 1 sailing is not that critical. Maybe he's sending a message to discourage further cuts? ...Besides the urgent shipments of Ramen or Udon noodles from Japan, to keep the noodle shops stocked... Don't forget Nanaimo has a deep-water port, therefore, imports can be directly injected into the economy, and Flu will circumvent the need (but maybe not the desire) to forage in the landscape areas of his community! ;D
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Post by Northern Exploration on Oct 15, 2009 7:42:27 GMT -8
...Besides the urgent shipments of Ramen or Udon noodles from Japan, to keep the noodle shops stocked... Don't forget Nanaimo has a deep-water port, therefore, imports can be directly injected into the economy, and Flu will circumvent the need (but maybe not the desire) to forage in the landscape areas of his community! ;D True true, I guess a once yearly noodle shipment would suffice (they are dried and have a long shelf life). The noodle bushes are too tropical even for the banana belt of the Island.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 17, 2009 9:13:44 GMT -8
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WettCoast
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Post by WettCoast on Oct 17, 2009 15:56:57 GMT -8
Yes, they did intervene last year but we need to keep in mind that last year was just a few months BEFORE an election. Now it is a few months AFTER an election.
Don't expect the BC 'Libs' to intervene this time.
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Post by Nickfro on Oct 20, 2009 10:00:32 GMT -8
I caught the 5pm sailing from Departure Bay yesterday. It wasn't more than 75% full. With the crew having to remain on board the Nanaimo based ferry while it doesn't sail, I guess if things get really busy they can do a MD round trip, but it'll have to be significantly busy for that to happen. I think having the last ferry leave Horseshoe Bay at 7pm is a bigger issue than no 7pm from Nanaimo.
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Post by hwy19man on Oct 20, 2009 16:43:44 GMT -8
The information the NCC and Tourism VI have told me is not my assertion. That is factual information coming from those agencies. The reasons mentioned, the economy but so is cutting sailings. Less sailings slowly erode ridership and do not move people to another, it discourages travel. That is what has happened over the past few years and David Hahn has said through media that ridership is down on all the major routes. Factual information about BC Ferries traffic figures is best gathered from BC Ferries annual reports, not from the NCC or Tourism VI. So, let's try this again, with the actual numbers: Route 30 traffic 2005- 1.36 million pax, 813k AEQ 2006- 1.39 million pax, 819k AEQ 2007- 1.47 million pax, 871k AEQ 2008- 1.53 million pax, 876k AEQ Modest increases, every year, for the period I mentioned. David Hahn was referring to major routes as a whole, and not route 30 specifically. If route 30 turns out to be down in fiscal '09, it will be because of the economy, and not the lack of Saturday night sailings. These BCF annual numbers are factual but just as you mentioned in your post, the figures refer to route 30 as a whole each year, not specifically each sailing.
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Post by hwy19man on Oct 20, 2009 16:57:58 GMT -8
I made a similar comment today in our local newspaper, in reaction to a story about Nanaimo leaders wanting to complain to the Ferry Company and to the Minister about service cuts. Mr. Hahn and company have been consistently unempathetic to complaints from communities about the social & economic impact of service cuts. And that's the type of response that is required under the system set up in 2003. Productive avenues of complaint would be: - your local MLA - Minister of transportation - Premier A bit of advice here from some one who knows his way around politicians and have seen the Mad Citizen once or twice (got a really irate citizen pulled down to the floor at a BC Social Credit Convention once, but that's another story. Told another one to get out of my office and had his car towed when he became threatening during a campaign, but that's another story). - A letter to the Premier isn't going to get very far. It's not his decision when it comes to BC Ferries, and this issue is not directly part of his balliwick (he is responsible for the entire Province, but specific aspects go to specific people). What you will receive is most likely an anemic form letter. I got one from VanderZalm once and got mad at him so wrote him again. What the subject was, was taken care of shortly after (but that's another story). - If you write, do not get into a political debate, nor slam the BC Liberal government. (might say you had your chance in May by hauling ass putting up signs and hauling supporters in by the logging truck load for the NDP!) - State your concerns (not criticism). Offer an alternative based on potential resources (is there something that could be done to assist BC Ferries with having to pay out the operational costs? Many times people are critical, but few offer potentially workable solutions or resolutions. Be specific and factual. Don't editorialise, and keep your letter short. MLAs get stacks of these things every day, and the more concise and well written letter will get attention than others which have repeated words about biological functions and biological fluids. - You should send a copy of your letter to the Minister of Transportation (Shirley Bond) for her perusal as noted here by Flugel Horn. - Place your complaints in a dignified way. - Write your letter but cc: to Mr. Hahn. I know many here don't like the guy, but he is the adjustable ramp when it comes to ferries. Even though he can be as irritating as the scraping of steel along a dolphin. Remember what you write is a reflection on yourself. State your concerns, but be a bit respectful and professional. This wil no doubt come up for debate in the Legislature when the politicians return next week. So who is your MLA? go to www.gov.bc.ca, and and click on Legislative Assembly. Beyond that, you're on your own. Life on The Coast... I have done this very formal writing to the CBC (about their too much Leaf coverage and underserved western coverage) that you explain very well. Unfortunately, it did not go far at all, regardless of how dignified and respectable I was. In return, I received a generic letter\email with very little specific explanations to my concerns.
I have had more success by phone talking to the heads of production and sports one on one and getting into an informative debate.
I have the feeling the same thing with excellent letter\email writing will happen with BCF.
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Post by Taxman on Oct 20, 2009 19:53:02 GMT -8
Factual information about BC Ferries traffic figures is best gathered from BC Ferries annual reports, not from the NCC or Tourism VI. So, let's try this again, with the actual numbers: Route 30 traffic 2005- 1.36 million pax, 813k AEQ 2006- 1.39 million pax, 819k AEQ 2007- 1.47 million pax, 871k AEQ 2008- 1.53 million pax, 876k AEQ Modest increases, every year, for the period I mentioned. David Hahn was referring to major routes as a whole, and not route 30 specifically. If route 30 turns out to be down in fiscal '09, it will be because of the economy, and not the lack of Saturday night sailings. Does anyone know why there is such a disproportionate change in AEQ between 2006 & 2007 and the other years? 60k more automobile equivalent is a substantial change when other years are 5k or 6k more. I am sure Flug has analysed this before.
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