Vessel Placement once the Super C's arrive.

[Hardy]

So what are we looking at to realistically do this? Current last sailing on an UNmodified schedule is 2245. First sailing is 0515. 2.5 hours between sailings ... let's extrapolate together:

2245 + 2.5 = 0115
0125 + 2.5 = 0345
0345 + 2.5 = 0615

Hmmmm .... so we have a problem. A 5-hour schedule (2.5 hours each way makes a 5 hour return for each vessel) does not divide into a 24 hour day.

So, assuming lighter vehicle load, and the fact that it would not need to be a 2.5 hour turn around, lets just say we add 2 trips total. This adds the problem that the ships will not be homeported in the same port each night. 4 trips though, to get them back 'home' would not work, unless the turn around time is reduced or unless schedules are modified. They would not necessarily even need to be evenly proportioned between the terminals (as this would probably allow provisioning and maintenace time). Again this scenario assumes that we would only be using two vessels and running them round the clock on this route. This would not be wise, maintenace wise.

I would assume that there would be more of a demand for a quicker late night sailing OFF the rock, so lets have a Duke Point departure at 0115 for those late night loads that need to be on the beach or to the Interior. Run the sailing off the beach departing Tsa at 0245/0300 to clear out the early morning trucks that need to do same day deliveries up Island and return same day.

Again, this is fraught with problems and really puts more strain on the ships. Using spares could achieve this also, but would leave ships out of position with regards to providing relief on Rtes 1 & 2.

Just putting my 2 cents in ..... don't shoot the messenger.

[hergfest]

I would assume they would use a third vessel for this proposed night service, and probably the Saanich. She is also slower than the Alberni and New West so she can't do the 2.5 hr turnaround.

[Koastal Karl]

Yeah I would have to agree that they would need to have a third ship just for the overnight sailings as I have also looked at the schedule and there is not enough time between the last arrival and first departure with the regular ships. Duke Point I think would be a good route to have overnight service.

[Hardy]

I fully concur with the posts saying that additional overnight service would need to be provided by "spare" vessels.

And as has been stated, Tsa-DP is the most viable routing to try 24 hour service on. The terminals will not disturb many residents. The only thing is, is there enough revenue in it? The BCFS has already cut out Sat PM sevice as well as Sun AM service on this route, due to under-utilization.

Remember, I am FOR this, as I am in the trucking and transportation industry. There's lots of times when I need to be in Victoria, but because of when the first sailings are versus travel time, I will go across Tsa-DP and then drive the Malahat and be done sooner over on the Island and back home for more revenue service.

[Dane]

I also like the idea in principle, but to reiterate my point from the previous page I share the concern that there isn't a lot of market growth potential, except to eat away at Seaspan.

It's been done before on Route 2, perhaps other routes as well? It didn't fly, obviously.

[Hardy]

dane said:

I share the concern that there isn't a lot of market growth potential, except to eat away at Seaspan.

It's been done before on Route 2, perhaps other routes as well? It didn't fly, obviously.

Thing is, it's been several years since it was tried last. Remember that the economy has spiked since then, and there are certain factors that could make late-night service at least profitable.

Let's play Marketting Department here (I love roleplaying! ;D ). What are the fixed operating costs for running a V-class with a low passenger load?? What I want to arrive at, is:

HOW MUCH REVENUE DOES A LATE NIGHT SAILING NEED TO GENERATE TO BREAK EVEN?

We then apply "fudge-factors" or modifiers to this number. Can we reduce crewing due to lower passenger volume (ie: assume that we will have mainly oversized commercial vehicles and very few private vehicles and minimal passengers)?? We can further cut back certain services such as not running the gift shop, minimal food service.

Once we have a number, we can have a HYPOTHETICAL where we can then apply modifiers to the fare structure to make the sailings more attractive IF THEY ARE NOT RUNNING AT BREAK-EVEN LEVEL. This would be a lower fare for say "pre-booked (reserved) commercial vehicles". Something along the lines of: "Use our late night truckers run - book 24 hours in advance and receive a 15% discount off your vehicle fare" or something along those lines. Damn rights this would cut into Seaspan's ACCOMPANIED traffic. Drop-Trailer service would still be SeaSpan's forte, and I don't think that anyone should go after that. But for a regular semi-truck (ie tractor WITH trailer) BCFS might be the cheaper competitive option.

Like I say, it's fun to play marketting wizard. I am not sure how well this idea will work, as I am not familiar with the operating costs per trip. I will need some serious number-crunching help from the more knowledgeable ones in this forum, but I am POSITIVE that this system can be made to fly......... just would take some OUTSIDE the box thinking to "make it so"

[staffer]

dane said:

I also like the idea in principle, but to reiterate my point from the previous page I share the concern that there isn't a lot of market growth potential, except to eat away at Seaspan.

It's been done before on Route 2, perhaps other routes as well? It didn't fly, obviously.

The 24 hour service worked very well on route 2. However, the residents around Departure and Horseshoe Bays complained about the constant noise all night long.

[Northern Exploration]

Yes the horns and even the sound of the trucks hitting the ramp can carry a fair ways especially when everything else is quiet. Duke Point is better suited for all night. Not sure if the homeowners on the bluffs above Tswwassen hear or complain.

[D'Elete BC in NJ]

Having been in a number of the houses there for work, I can attest to the fact the ferry horns can be quite loud, especially on a clear, quiet night. Vehicle traffic is not so noticeable.

[Dane]

staffer said:

dane said:

I also like the idea in principle, but to reiterate my point from the previous page I share the concern that there isn't a lot of market growth potential, except to eat away at Seaspan.

It's been done before on Route 2, perhaps other routes as well? It didn't fly, obviously.

The 24 hour service worked very well on route 2. However, the residents around Departure and Horseshoe Bays complained about the constant noise all night long.

And thus it didn't fly I didn't know that's what stopped it, thanks for the insight. Another BCF employee also posted on here a long time back that once a ship got behind schedule it could stay that way for quite some time, and as an engineer by trade he also noted some concerns about maint time. Sadly I can't remember the actual topic of the thread so can't search it

[Hardy]

Anyone with any familiarity in "scheduled" transportation knows the snowball effect of getting behind. That's where spares come in handy, because as has been rightly stated, once you get behind, unless you "floor it" or short-shrift either turn-arounds or maintenance, you CANNOT catch up. If you have some spare capacity (vessels or what-have-you), you can toss one in and help get 'the trains running on time' again.

BCFS seems to be able to make up some time on some routes with some vessels at current, but a lot depends on terminals and their loading. I would like to see the vessels and terminals interact a bit better to put in place a sort of "hurry up offense" which can be implemented to speed up the loading process when a vessel is behind, ASSUMING that the terminal traffic staff can do such a thing. I could see shuffling some cars around or sorting out by size to some extent in the terminal holding area while waiting for a late vessel to arrive...... but what do I know, I ain't a ferry worker, just a trucker.

FYI in my business I have sometimes had warehouse operators pre-stage my load in a certain order to speed up the loading, or loaded freight in a non-typical order to increase the speed of loading _AND_ potentially unloading. Sometimes 5-10 minutes more spent loading up can save 20 mins unloading, at least where freight is concerned. Cars and trucks are just really wheeled freight, aren't they? And passengers are cargo that walks under it's own power?? ;D

[hwy19man]

karl said:

Yeah I would have to agree that they would need to have a third ship just for the overnight sailings as I have also looked at the schedule and there is not enough time between the last arrival and first departure with the regular ships. Duke Point I think would be a good route to have overnight service.

If overnight service happens on route 30, the third ship on this route would have to be based out of Tsawwassen. It could not be based out of Duke Point because there is only one berth at the terminal and that is where the Alberni rests.

At Tsawwassen, berth 2 would have to be double decked for the #2 boat since berths 3,4, and 5 would have the regular vessels docked there for the night.

[hwy19man]

hardy said:

Hmmmm .... so we have a problem. A 5-hour schedule (2.5 hours each way makes a 5 hour return for each vessel) does not divide into a 24 hour day.

Just putting my 2 cents in ..... don't shoot the messenger.

This would be very complicated and confusing but, if a few minutes were shaven off loading\unloading as they do when V class vessels are on route 30, there could be five round trips in a 24 hour period. Take six minutes off each one-way trip and it will work, 5 times 4 hrs 48 mins equals 24 hours.

[hergfest]

I have seen BC Ferries store the Vancouver in Berth One or Two at Tsawwassen when she isn't in service.

[Neil]

Remember, at the AGM Hahn talked about possibly using a spare V for late night service. They would never try to have one boat do round the clock service.

(Could someone correct 'vessle'?)

[Dane]

Isn't there provision at Duke for a second berth?

[Low Light Mike]

Whole purpose of this post is to correct the word "vessel".

I'll be sending Extreammmmmmmmme an invoice for my time.....

[nolonger]

[/quote]

If overnight service happens on route 30, the third ship on this route would have to be based out of Tsawwassen. It could not be based out of Duke Point because there is only one berth at the terminal and that is where the Alberni rests.

[/quote]


So if the Alberni is resting there all night, there is no berth for any ship until the Alberni sails at 0515. Or we bring in a crew to move the Alberni. Costly. The hammerhead as it's called was built to accept a 2nd berth at Duke Point. Will it ever be built? Not in the forseeable future me thinks.

[FENK 9000]

I think correcting Extreamme's spelling a lost cause, Fluge 'ol boy. Spelling, grammar, punctuation are all on the way out. It's only a matter of time before Newspeak becomes the dominant language in conversation *as well* as writing. Only, with more 3's substituting for E's. Why, one may ask? 'Cause today's youth are gorram lazy, that's why. When I came home from school with anything less than a B on an English test, my pappy would wail on me something fierce. And believe you me, I *was* ROTF, just not LOL at the same time. Let me tell you, my k3st3r was r3d from my dad BTLDOOMSA. Every time I got a test back, I'd tell my friends that I'd TTYL; that I had to GTG and that I probably would be AWAY and not BRB for a while as my father would be rippin' me a new one.

Fenk, good sp3ll3r

[Barnacle]

BTLDOOMSA was a tough one, but I got it eventually...

[Low Light Mike]

barnacle said:

BTLDOOMSA was a tough one, but I got it eventually...

can someone pleeze cell me a hint on that one ?

[SS San Mateo]

flugelhorn said:

barnacle said:

BTLDOOMSA was a tough one, but I got it eventually...

can someone pleeze cell me a hint on that one ?

Whatever the bloody blue blazing hell it is, it's so obscure that I got a Google Goose Egg (i.e., a Google search that returned no results).

[Low Light Mike]

Time to launch my creative right-brain, and attempt to sort out this acronym: (Extreamme's extreme amount of errors in the original post allows us the freedom to hijack this thread at any time.....that's part of the lazy-english code of conduct. Besides, he will just relaunch this very same idea into another similar thread in 2 month's time....so this thread is now controlled by Btldoomsa-Generation).

BTLDOOMSA

- First, I thought this was some condensed words. Like Beatle Doom Sah. I tried repeating repeatedly, and the answer still eluded me.

- Second, I tried the old backward spelling trick. So I got Asmoodltb.......which was also not the answer.

- Third, I concluded that this is an acronym. So what does it mean? Considering the context, it would be that "let me tell you, my keister was red from my dad BTLDOOMSA".

So I naturally thought the first part was about Dad's belt, as that leather torture instrument was familiar to me in my youth.

(of course, I also Googled it, just like Little-Bill....with the same result).

BTLDOOMSA
Bob the logger does offer occasional mean spirited action

By the light darkness of oompaloompa marionettes singing altogether

But the low down on other matters shall alleviate

[Barnacle]

I believe it was, in context, 'beating the living daylights out of my sorry a$$.'

[Low Light Mike]

Man, it always looks so obvious after the reveal.

oh well, I gave it the good old college try.........