Vessel Placement once the Super C's arrive.

[Hardy]

I see I definately threw the cat into the blender with this one!

Even a 6 week blip, with the lead up, the games, and then the end of the games, there should be some increase. I think that the esteemed forum members are correct insofar as it will be an intense schedule.

Another thing to keep in mind, that even though it is in the middle of winter, that usually IS a high tourist season for winter recreational activities. The interior and North Island ski destinations will be taking all of the "tourist skiers/boarders" during this time, as the North Shore mountains and Whistler/Blackcomb will be dedicated to the games. Forbidden Plateau, Tod Mountain, Red Mountain etc will all be busier than stink for tourists and locals that want to actually SKI/BOARD rather than watch others on TV or in person!

Not everything stops when the Olympics are in town and anyone that thinks that people are just going to suspend their routine is sadly mistaken.

Another consideration, off the Olympic bend now, is the increase in population. Look at all the development that has occurred on Vancouver Island, both down in the south, as well as the HUGE increases Mid Island and the steady paced increases North Island. Just monitoring it in terms of the move jobs I have done and all the new developments, as well as watching all the new telephone prefixes being assigned, there's a huge Island boom. I won't even mention the mini-booms on the mainland or the interior. All these new increased number of people will travel on the ferries at some point.

I had another point to make here, but I must still be tired, as it just completely slipped my mind.

[Neil]

Perhaps the point that you were thinking of was that there is going to be a considerable increase in foot traffic on the ferries, since Gordon Campbell's announcement that he was giving all of Vancouver' homeless people and drug addicts free ferry tickets and food vouchers to convince them to move to Victoria and Nanaimo for the duration of the Games, so as to make downtown more presentable to visitors.

[blackshadow]

My connection to BCFS is that I employed with them.

As said management at this point isn't sure as where are going to placed and which extra vessel will be used.

New West is getting big millions dollar upgrades this winter same as the "C". Why? Iam still asking.

[queenofcowichan]

I can not see BC Ferries removing the Gallery decks on the Cowichan. That will take a lot of work to do and will take away the ship's ability to be used on other run due to her reduced capacity. Even though it is possible, I just do not see why they would do that.

Once all three Super C's arrive I think this will be more realistic:

Summer:

Tsawwassen to Swartz Bay
-Spirit of Bc
-a C class

Tsawwassen to Duke Point
-Queen of New West
-a C class to replace the New West for refitt.

Swartz Bay to Tsawwassen
-Spirit of VI
-Super C Class

Duke Point to Tsawwassen
-Queen of Alberni

Departure Bay to HB
-Super C Class
-Queen of Cow or Coq

Horeshoe Bay to DB
-Super C Class

Langdale to HB
-Queen of Surrey
-Queen of Oak Bay or Coquitlam (2nd summer)

Due to her speed and overhight capacity I think Queen of New Westminster will remain the principle ship based out of Tsawwasen for the Duke Point run. I do not see BC Ferries replacing her with the Cowichan at least untill the NW is retired.

[jcachristian2000]

Further to my above post the Queen of New West's upper car deck has a greater clearance for overhights as opposed to the Cowichan.

[hergfest]

I don't see BCF moving the New West, she was made especially for Route 30, unless they want the overhead clearance for Route 2 but with the Super C's that is a mute point. But in that scenario, at least the New West can keep the Route 2 schedule. I also believe that the Oak Bay will be the third boat on Route 2, based at Departure Bay. BCF has always tended to keep her on Route 2 for her extra pass capacity, which isn't needed on the Langdale run.

[kylefossett]

Hardy, i don't want to sound like alot of other people on here but I have a couple little corrections for you. Forbidden Plateau is no longer in operation. I believe the last year of operation was 1999?. Tod Mountain is now part of the whole Sun Peaks resort, something about the german translation being mountain of death and not a good marketing name. Yes, places like Mount Washington on the island, Big White/SilverStar in the interior are all looking at higher then normal skier/boarder visits in the winter of 2010.

[blackshadow]

Cowichan is going to Tsawwassen for sure. As for removing gallery car deck is still in the air. The Cowichan is cheaper and easily can keep route 30 schedule but work hard on route 1 to keep schedule.

Coquiltam is staying at Departure Bay from the email I had seen this hold true for above.

Oaky according to email was unsure. If Oaky goings any where away from HSB or Langdale then crew has to be trained where as Oaky and Surrey are true sisters.

[blackshadow]

One other note managers at BCFS doesn't make alot of great moves. It doesn't matter what we here or employees thinks should right move, they will do it any ways.

Case in point Kuper should have been bigger as ferries needs 50 car ferries not another 30.

[jcachristian]

I guess we will have to wait and Sea.

[Barnacle]

blackshadow said:

One other note managers at BCFS doesn't make alot of great moves. It doesn't matter what we here or employees thinks should right move, they will do it any ways.

Case in point Kuper should have been bigger as ferries needs 50 car ferries not another 30.

You may rest assured it isn't any better in the system to the south, brother.

[Balfour]

Another note on the use of Ski Resorts is that Grouse and Seymour are not hosting any events. Grouse's runs are too small and Seymour is well..... Seymour. Cypress will be hosting some events.

[queenofcowichan]

Regarding C class on route 1:

It used to take the Alberni 1 hour and 20 minutes to do the crossing. Now I recall someone indicating that the C Class has to go into mode 2 while going through Active Pass. Even while slowing down to travel through the pass does this realy add more than 15 minutes to the sailing time? I would think that the C class should be able to keep with the schedual especially since they do not need to back out and turn around at the docks.

[Ferryman]

The V-Class and Spirits do 17-19 knots on Route 1. The C's can handle around 20 knots on Route 2. Ok, so the 1 hour and 20 minutes on Route 1 isn't quite so logical anymore with a C-Class, with the Queen of Alberni grounding however many years ago. How many minutes does it take a single ender to go through Active Pass? 5-10 minutes? Slowing down for those 2 major turns would probably tack on another 5-10 minutes on top of that, I would think. Like what was said before, the C-Class could make up time, by not having to turn around at either of the docks.

One thing I've never been able to understand, is how the V's can handle the Route 1 schedule no problem, but can't keep up to the Route 2 schedule. Does this mean that the Spirits are slowed down, so the V's can keep up? So if there's no V's on the run, couldn't the Spirits speed up as well, to try and keep up to a C/Super C-Class? Then again, that would mean more fuel consumption, and then you would see another 5 fuel surcharges tacked on to the fare, to pay for 10 minute faster sailings.

...In conclusion, I think there would be no problems with having a C-Class on Route 1, and you shouldn't be seeing any service notices reminding everyone an old slow C-Class is on the Route, and to avoid those sailings.

[Dane]

The Spirits never really seem to get above 15 knots, that's not an empirical fact, just my observations from many a crossing in the bridge. Remember Route 1 is much shorter than Route 2 by distance traveled.

[Neil]

Route 2 is longer, by six nautical miles, and when the V's were new they could do a two hour turnaround, barely, but that was when they were only carrying a hundred cars.

[Deleted]

So does anyone think at some point as more ships are added to the fleet that we may see two boats between Powell River and Comox?

[Neil]

Powell River- Comox is one of the most lightly utilized routes in the system, so... no way.

[Dane]

I do think we may see a decrease of one vessel, though

[Dane]

... I also meant to add my thoughts to this thread.

While it is fun to postulate where vessels will be in two years, I am sure we're all aware that we shouldn't take any of this as a "go." Just as if you look at threads of a similar nature from two years ago, a lot of things change. Big ticket items like removing hardmounted Gallery decks can look really nice in companies' long term plans, but often things like this do not ever come to fruitation, as we have seen with BCFS current slower-than-originally hoped aquisition of vessels, plus we were told they'd be in the foot passenger only business by now.

The Queen of New West has had such considerable maintenance and rebuild work done on her thorughout the 90s, and was also the only V to have a full hull reconditionining if I am not mistaken, so it's little suprise to see her staying in the long term plans. As for the other Vs I am more skeptical, the cost of operation is getting higher and it isn't going to level out at any point. Fleet capacity will also be rising with the acquisition of the Super C class, although I can definatly understand where the capacity need could come in to hold onto a V. If they really needed the capcity, however, another Super C should have been ordered.

[WettCoast]

Hornbyguy is quite right, Route 1 is 24 nautical miles vs 30 on Route 2. Back in the sixties the four V's operating on Route 1 made the crossing in 100 minutes, allowing for 20 min in port to unload/load vehicles. On Route 2 the 3 B class plus the Q of Tsawwassen were scheduled to make the crossing in 110 minutes allowing only 10 min in port to unload/load. Needless to say they had a real challenge to keep up with the schedule in the busy summer months. At that time (1965 to 1976) Route 2 had hourly sailings from 7:00 am to 10 pm.

Moral of the story - a boat operating at an average of 17 knots on route 1 can make the schedule. Operating at the same speed on Route 2 will not allow the schedule to be kept. A 'C' class operating on Route 1 easily has the speed to make today's typical crossing time of 95 minutes even if it has to slow down considerably in Active Pass.

[WettCoast]

I have done some research and determined that the Alberni originally made its Route 1 crossings in 75 minutes. After the 1979 grounding she was slowed down while passing through Active Pass which resulted in an 80 minute crossing time. I am quite certain that any C class operated on Route 1 today could do it in a comfortable and economical 90 minutes.

[Coastal Canuck]

wetcoastkidjst said:

Hornbyguy is quite right, Route 1 is 24 nautical miles vs 30 on Route 2. Back in the sixties the four V's operating on Route 1 made the crossing in 100 minutes, allowing for 20 min in port to unload/load vehicles. On Route 2 the 3 B class plus the Q of Tsawwassen were scheduled to make the crossing in 110 minutes allowing only 10 min in port to unload/load. Needless to say they had a real challenge to keep up with the schedule in the busy summer months. At that time (1965 to 1976) Route 2 had hourly sailings from 7:00 am to 10 pm.

Moral of the story - a boat operating at an average of 17 knots on route 1 can make the schedule. Operating at the same speed on Route 2 will not allow the schedule to be kept. A 'C' class operating on Route 1 easily has the speed to make today's typical crossing time of 95 minutes even if it has to slow down considerably in Active Pass.

3 V's and Tsawwassen.

shouldn't it have been 2 B's (Queen of Burnaby and Nanaimo) and 2 Sidney's (Queen of Sidney and Tsawwassen)

or am I mistaken again

[WettCoast]

extreamme said:

wetcoastkidjst said:

Hornbyguy is quite right, Route 1 is 24 nautical miles vs 30 on Route 2. Back in the sixties the four V's operating on Route 1 made the crossing in 100 minutes, allowing for 20 min in port to unload/load vehicles. On Route 2 the 3 B class plus the Q of Tsawwassen were scheduled to make the crossing in 110 minutes allowing only 10 min in port to unload/load. Needless to say they had a real challenge to keep up with the schedule in the busy summer months. At that time (1965 to 1976) Route 2 had hourly sailings from 7:00 am to 10 pm.

Moral of the story - a boat operating at an average of 17 knots on route 1 can make the schedule. Operating at the same speed on Route 2 will not allow the schedule to be kept. A 'C' class operating on Route 1 easily has the speed to make today's typical crossing time of 95 minutes even if it has to slow down considerably in Active Pass.

3 V's and Tsawwassen.

shouldn't it have been 2 B's (Queen of Burnaby and Nanaimo) and 2 Sidney's (Queen of Sidney and Tsawwassen)

or am I mistaken again

V's = B's = the same thing, especially at that time. Route 2 was served by the Nanaimo, Burnaby, New Westminster, and the Tsawwassen. The Sidney was used on the Tsawwassen - Gulf Islands in summers, and as a relief ship in refit season.

[queenofcowichan]

Since the first Super C will not be in service untill Jan2008, I can almost garantee you the Queen of Esquimalt will be sticking around in service untill at least January, because she will be needed for the Xmass holiday rush on route 2. This is especially needed if the New West will be in for her "Mid-Life" They will have no choice but to keep her.