New Ferry Service Suggestion

[Balfour]

I guess the ministry of highways could run (I'm not entirely right-wing

[cascade]

With regards to Route 12 - running it part time - Summer time and winter time - is an idea that was put forward by BCFS in August 2000 report - but they though was unworkable.
I tend to agree. The problem with this concept is the crew training and the maint'ce cost of keeping the MV Mill Bay in shape for seaonal runs. An old vessel like her needs to be kept running.

I go back to my other views - that this route can make or breakeven. It is the oldest in the current make up of BCF - therefore should be sub from HQ - marketing budget. The main problem I have is the way they do there accounting on this route.
If someone was able to have look at the accounts - I am sure it would / could sort of breakeven.

1. Where are there 15 people working on this route?
2. Crew - 4 people on board - which work 4 days - then have 4 days off.
3 No terminal staff - they collect fares on board.
4. So even if you add in acouple of extra staff for cover - then where are the other 5 people assigned to this route.

The maint'ce staff are covered in the yearly dry dock - 6 week layup that she does each year.

[Dane]

4 Days morning, 4 Days afternoon, 4 Days off. 4+4+4, plus there is a maint person or two. Im not sure where the extra 1-2 is, though.

[Harry]

Thanks for "comforting" me PR Queen Kid, I do like the route and it should be kept open, maybe raise the fare by $1 or 2 and it would make a great deal of money, the villages of brentwood bay and mill bay could probably even make a fundraiser day each year!

Have M.V Elizabeth run in tandem with the mill bay when the malahat closes and make her capacity 80-90 vehicles and 350-410 passengers.

Good idea?
Or Not.

[Doug]

The Mill Bay route will probably never have a demand for 80-90 cars. Unfortunately, just because you (as one person) like the route, BC Ferries does not want to continue running it. It may be used only if the highway is closed, but other than that, I doubt that route we will be kept alive. And what's this "MV Elizabeth" crap all about??? I don't think BC Ferries is going to name a ferry after your grandmaa. Anyways, the route is useless when the highway is open because it pretty much runs parallel with the highway. Going from the west side over the Swartz Bay would probably get more traffic and would be nice for people living around Duncan to go to the mainland.

[Harry]

I don't nessescarily mean M.V Elizabeth to run along with the mill bay during the summer, I meant use her as a replacement or extra vessel in the winter when the malahat closes, but make her wheelhouse higher.

[NMcKay]

I thikn the route is great and just because it its a useless as the route the chilliwack runs on doesn't that the liberals should pull a "fastcat" and sell then adn liquidate the route.

[nolonger]

I've used it instead of towing my 6000 lb horse trailer over the Malahat. I like the route and think it should stay operating. I can tell you that the union was notified that the run is history after 2008.

[cascade]

BCF gave an undertaking to give a decision on the Mill Bay - Brentwood bay route from April 2005 onwards. Pam Alcorn has lead the local pressure group - and got a result - promise from the Government / BCF in March 2004 that they would keep the route open for the next ten years. So we were all surprised and shocked to see in August 2004 that this route was put up for auchion.

I would not bet against her - as she and her very well origainsed team - beat off the current management team from BCF and the NDP government puppets back in 2001.

This time I think it may be a little bit harder - as one of the Capt on the Mill Bay has put in for eary retirement.

One of the main problems - which everyone seems to have missed for this route - is that you have a major problem in where do you stack - hold the cars waiting for the ferry. On the BRentwood side it can only hold about 18 cars max - as for the Mill Bay side - it therefore depends on a deal you do with the Malahat first Nation people - or you park them on the road. Again - it is though about 20 cars max - this way.

The route can handle a vessel - that will carry around 30 to 50 cars - BUT the problem is the parking of cars before loading them. Brentwood side is the worse. In pure terms there is just no spare space at all there - even thinking of parking them down the middle of road. Already problems with cars waiting for the crossing - blocking in local's.

It has been proved over the years that there is a demand - so I guess some sort of soluation needs to be found.
Winners in losers - on both sides of the agruement here.

[Harry]

Oh, Stop being such a drama king Dougubell!

The route is a good route, it isn't that far from the swartz bay terminal.

Anyway the people of brentwood bay and mill bay will not allow their ferry to vanish.

Never mind about M.V Elizabeth, call her anything, and the mill bay to swartz bay will take a lot longer with the original vessel, plus they would need a new berth at swartz bay ($500,000 or more) and the mill bay would need replacing or have new 1500-2000hp engines

The mill bay has survived this long, keep her running.
until she dies. (engines wear out)

[Koastal Karl]

If you lived in Duncan wouldent it be quicker to go to Duke Point then all the way down across the mill bay ferry to Swartz Bay??? If I lived in Duncan I would probably be using Duke Point alot more.

[cascade]

Dane - you said : 4 Days morning, 4 Days afternoon, 4 Days off. 4+4+4, plus there is a maint person or two. Im not sure where the extra 1-2 is, though.

The actual working day is only 8 1/2 hours long - there is no night maint'ce crew. The day crew service the vessel while she is in operation. If any major problems come up - very little so far in her life time - then the operational crew sort her out. They also handle the fueling & cleaning on her. (The refueling is done every 8th or 9th day)
There are four people who work the whole day.
Captain (Master) Eng and 2x Deck crew. They work together as a team for 4 days - then they have 4 days off - while the next 4 man crew comes on board.

Again this route only has 9 round trips over a 8 1/2 hour day.

So for BCF saying that there is 15 people asigned / costed to her - I would like to know where they are and what they do.

So far they have 8 operational crew - plus I can see 2 others as standby crew. There are no terminal people - as the terminals are unmaned. The crew handle all the refueling and cleaning. She is a very simple vessel to operate - hence her age - plus have a look at her time keeping - has very little "down time" caused by equipment failure. She does go off line for about 6 weeks each year for a general maint'ce - refit. This is when the "whole Crew" take there hoildays - not during the seasons.

I think that there is 5 people asigned to this route, which no one has been able to explain where they are and what do they do?

I know some of the crew - hence why I know what they do and the hours they work. What sort of schedule they have and where the standby crew even come from. The crew themself are concerned about the figures - numbers of people asigned to this route.

[nolonger]

where do you get an 8 1/2 hour working day. In fact it's a 12 hour day, 4 on, 4 off. 2 crews. 9 roundtrips, monday to Saturday, and 8 on Sunday.

[cascade]

Yes you are correct. They start at 07:00 hours and they close up shop - lock down is around 19:15 hours. The crew - like the trip - route as the Overtime is great - hence one of the comments about the way BCF have shown 15 people working the route. Crews wages are high - which takes in to account the average O/T.

I stand corrected on the daily hours work. They do have a stand down time around noon - which I understand they don't get paid for.

It can make for long days - but in the Summer time it is great - winter - cold / rain not so great.

As you stated there are only two set's of crew - each has 4 people in the team / crew - plus 2 standby crew. In my book - maybe wrong - but that brings the total to 10 people operational on this route.

[nolonger]

well you're partly right. Those working a 12 hour, day for day shift pattern, are not paid overtime for those hours, but receive a 22% shift differential on top of their salary. Overtime does not come into effect until 5 minutes after the the 12 hours. Also, they are paid during the layover around noon, as they are still required to remain aboard the vessel.

[Harry]

Karl, the mill bay terminal is only 25-40 minutes drive away from duncan, duke point is about 1 hour away, I used to go to brentwood bay from Nanaimo when I lived there.

[Koastal Karl]

yeah it may only be that long to Mill Bay but then the 25minute ferry trip and probably another 20 mins to Swartz Bay would be like over an hour. Plus if you have to wait at Mill Bay for the ferry even driving the Malahat down and around would be longer than to go to Duke Point. I have made it from my place which is about 25 minutes from downtown Victoria to Duke Point in about 95 minutes. About 50 mins to Duncan so I still think it would be fast to go to Duke Point.

[Harry]

er, 55 minutes, but that is depending on traffic conditions, or crofton is nearby isn't it? Crofton to Vesuvius and Fulford Harbour to Swartz bay 50-65/70 minutes.

[Quinsam]

I wonder why no one has replied yet?

[Doug]

Fine, I'll reply....

We have a shortage of beer and pop cans...Mill Bay. ;D

[Quinsam]

Why Beer and pop? Those things can dissolve one of your insides in less than 30 minutes!

[Balfour]

That's never happened to me before, and I have at least 1 coke per day.

[Quinsam]

I have one or two a day, but they dissolve your liver if uo have too many, and you experience "urine" (uhh !!)problems.

Although the Mill bay should be bigger or should be on a better route, she is a good shape and the people in the villages of Brentwood Bay and Mill Bay are happy with "their" ferry.

Quinsam is a good vessel too, (to those who are living on gabriola island!), I have seen an even more strange looking ferry (http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.igougo.com/photos/journal_photos/ferry(20).jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.igougo.com/planning/journalEntryFreeForm.asp%3FJournalID%3D11973%26EntryID%3D8853%26n%3DDigby%2BNeck%2B%2526%2BIslands%2BScenic%2BDrive&h=222&w=329&sz=7&tbnid=evw_hxZ88c8J:&tbnh=76&tbnw=113&start=3&prev=/images%3Fq%3DDigby%2BIsland%2BFerry%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D

The Quinitsa is good too, although, I would like a sister of the quinsam for another route(not nessesaraly the mill bay route.

[Quinsam]

ok, search for Digby Island ferry on the images search.

[Koastal Karl]

ah I have seen that ferry before but never knew where it went.