New Ferry Service Suggestion

[Harry Douthwaite]

Hi, You Know Quinsam (the Gabriola Ferry) I Love that vessel and I would Like a new Service to Brentwood Bay From Swartz Bay, using Mill Bay's Ferry Terminal In Brentwood Bay, I also Love the Seabus and The Pacificats, is the Pacific Voyager too big for the Saanich Inlet? or can that do Brentwood Bay to Mill Bay when the Malahat is Closed.

I would like this new vessel for Brentwood Bay and Swartz Bay to be called Elizabeth, from my Nan.

Please Reply your comments to: [e-mail]
Thanks
Harry (12 years old)

[Ferryman]

Well Harry Swartz Bay is on the same side of the Saanich inlet as Brentwood Bay, unless you meant to say Mill Bay which is on the other side of the inlet. I don't really think the Pacificat Voyager would be too big for the inlet up to a point, but it might have a hard time getting in and out of Mill Bay and Brentwood Bay, but it would have to operate alot slower than it was designed for the Departure Bay to Horseshoe Bay route, because of the huge wake from it that people along the shores of West Vancouver and Bowen Island called the wake Fastcat Tsunamis. Plus Mill Bay to Brentwood Bay is just a short trip with the ferry that's operating on it right now anyway. Another thing any of the 3 Pacificat Sisters would be wayyyy too big to fit in the dock at Brentwood Bay or Mill Bay, and would need to do a huge major expansion at the terminals there. Plus the people of Brentwood Bay and Mill Bay wouldn't be too happy if there was a huge Ferry Terminal in their little villages. If they were to put any larger vessels there, it would probably be an Intermediate vessel like the Quinsam if they had to when the Malahat is closed.

[Koastal Karl]

Well I was thinking the same thing, Swartz Bay and Brentwood Bay are on the same side on the saanich Peninsula so there would be no point in that, unless you meant Swartz Bay to Mill Bay?? But I dont see the purpose in that either as Swartz Bay is farther and would take longer to Mill Bay, Brentwood Bay is closer and it's only a 25min crossing. Makes more sense from Brentwood Bay to Mill Bay. Although I have thought of that from Swartz Bay though.

[cascade]

Karl,

Are you aware of the BCF report - started in 1998 and finished - reported August 04 - 2000 on the Mill Bay -Brentwood route.
They looked at 8 possible options in keeping this route or something like it open - to service the people who don't want to drive the Malahat during a cold foggy Dec morning..... any way only 3 of the options - were to move both terminals away from there current position - and of the three possible location only one made any real sense - and yes it was from the old government wharf - Mill Bay to Pat Bay - short bus run to the Airport - and if foot pass - then bus to Swatz bay.
Problem with this route was the car traffic coming off the "new" ferry - too far to get to the Pat Bay Highway - roads could not handle the increase traffic.

Out of the 8 possible - ideas ect this one and remaining where they are were it appears the only workable soluations -

They also claim to have had a look at foot traffic only - ie join up with people wanting to have a "Short" cut to the airport. Now I thnk about it - why doesn't Harbour Lynx open up this route new route???

[Dane]

Because it would bleed money.

[Curtis]

Speaking of Mill Bay-Brentwood Bay there were some minor problems on the malahat a few days ago so the Mill Bay run would be a good suggestion at the moment

[NMcKay]

it would bleed money. even though right now Harbourlynx is in the clear. they are still fighting for thier survival

[Koastal Karl]

Nope, can't say I am aware of that report. Acutally that would of been good route from Mill Bay to Pat Bay, close the Airport and close Swartz Bay too. Well Brentwood Bay is far from the Pat Bay highway so what are they talking about it's too far from Pat Bay? And would they of used the MV Mill Bay for this run?? Cause how much conjestion would 16 cars be coming off a 16 car ferry. I wouldent think it would be too much. I dont think alot of foot passengers would use the route. But that's just my opinion.

[cascade]

So which route - way are you saying would bleed money?
The foot pass only - direct to the airport - or a car & foot pass trafic - coming out from around Pat Bay

Compare costs - on having a fast Cat - pass only on this route - there is the volume to do it - not so sure of the car traffic - as the roads around the back of the airport are actuall small - where as the roads from Brentwood Bay to the Highway are actualy wider - hence can handle the proposed volume.

I think foot pass only route - as the start cost would be less - and there is the volume to make it a goer - over to you HarbourLynx - have your people done there sums?

[NMcKay]

nope. cant say that ive heard anything about that. You'll have to give me a couple of days (till the weekend at least) to talk to my dad. he would be the one that, if it sounds reasonable would start to figure it out.

[cascade]

So HarbourLynx Kid - where do I send the consultancy bill too?

We have had a look at it - when the Brentwood - Mill Bay route came up on the market. Reviewed the BCF report from August 4th 2000 - as one of the workable opitions was a foot only route.
Mill Bay side is where there is "park & ride" service - on the Pat Bay side it then becomes a short bus hop to the airport.

We are only interested in Car & Foot - and not fast cat type service - so field is open for your people. Data shows it is workable. Run your second or third cat on this route as a tester.

[Dane]

Anything there will bleed money. Transit plans involving water ways sound very romantic and nice, but we all know that the Island is heavily personal vehicale based and that chances of that changing are VERY low. And if it does happen it'll be a gradual process. The route is nice for ferry fans alike, but offers no true validity for long term service.

If your company belives they can do a good job of running a service that will benefit locals as well as the company PLEASE try it. If I could take over a BCF route, however, it would be among the last of my choices if not last.

[NMcKay]

as long as its run properly a water option can make money.

[Dane]

Where do you intend to get ridership for that route?

It's not a rhetorical question, do you honestly think that there is a poulation and demand to merrit such a service? Clealry there isn't or BCF, even when it was fully public wouldn't try so hard to abandon the service.

[NMcKay]

BCF havent been the smartest. ill remind you about the fastcats.

[Dane]

FastCats=NDP

So where is this ridership coming from? I don't care about 3 aluminum chuncks that failed, I care about the long term viability of the Brentwood Bay crossing.

[NMcKay]

i think if you reduce overhead( so that the fare would reflect the cost) and then suddenly you have a Route that works.

I would move the Mill bay to Thetis - Island - Kuper, and move the klitsa to Mill bay.

[Dane]

I dont think the Mill Bay can sail on open waters, and the upgrades may cost more than they're worth.

Reducing overheard to zero, but still paying for crew, maint. and fuel would still leave you with a marginal profit under the current fares. Double the fares and you'd have some profit but secondary costs will still kill you. Plus a doubled fare would make no one take this except people that want to ride on a nice little old ferry.

[NMcKay]

thetis islan kuper is not open waters. and on that particular run, they find that a "Busy" Night is 16 cars. when the Klitsa comes to Albion, she gets more work in the 2 weeks shes there, then she does in 1 year @ Thetis. The Mill bay would be a better option except on holiday weekends, when the Klitsa would move back to thetis for the Heavier loads.

[Dane]

I was under the impression though that Transport Canada dictated that the Mill Bay can only be where she is right now, maybe I'm incorrect though. There is SOMETHING that justified her placement as such.

[NMcKay]

shes considered a single ender. there is nothing in her registry limiting her to mill bay, just her 16 car capacity.

[cascade]

Dane,

Your sort of missing the point here. There are 3,000 cars per hour using the Malahat. Now if you live some where south of Namanio, and need to catch a plane from Victoria Airport - now would you get there ?

So if a friend drives you to Mill Bay and you take a fast cat type vessel across - say 12 - 15 min - plus a shutle bus picks you up and then drops you at the front door of the airport - would you use the service ? if it was at a realistic cost?
Plus factor into your general statement - and yes the car pop on the island is increasing - but so is the age groupings - there are a lot more seniors than people your age.
Plus what is the cost of parking your car for 10 days while away on Hol's - when a taxi / friend can drop you off - plus add in the time to drive all the way around.

Now go back and look at the figures of people flying out of the airport - so why did they increase it - if no one was using it? there is traffic - just have to be a risk taker.

[cascade]

Dane,

With regards to the Mill Bay - Brentwood - route 12 ferry system - you should go and look at the other links - as we have been talking about it - and all the what if's a lot over the last couple of weeks.

Harbourlynx Kid is correct BCF has not come up anything new - and have in the past 20 years made a real mess of things. The unions also have had a hand in this problem.

This other route came out of a study done by BCF - started in 1998 - finished / reported August 4th 2000. Out of the 8 possible options they came up with only three were really workable - which one was a pure foot route only - going from a "new" Mill Bay terminal to Pat Bay - with direct links to the airport - hence the traffic - which - yes - isn't there now - BUT could be - don't you think?

[NMcKay]

Id like to ask a few things. 1) How would you get that there is enough Pax Traffic to Pat bay. 2) why would people go to victoria, when they can do the same thing from nanaimo airport?

[Harry]

Actually, why don't they use Elizabeth for the Mill bay to Brentwood bay, with Mill bay so two ferries are making some money by not leaving anybody behind!

Quinsam is a good vessel and although it needed to be taken out of service for a few days, it has good reliabilty.
Mill bay isn't bad either, but when it retires in 2010/11 what will do BB to MB then?

I am only 12, I can't build these ferries, just a suggestion for BC ferries to do, anyway they have new century class vessels like Skeena Queen delayed or canceled.

Never mind Replying to my email address, just post on this web site.

Thanks
Harry Douthwaite.