MV Hyak

[chief]

Nope the Oly is an all new hull designed in super computers and tank tested in the EU. Millions were spent on her hull design in the Thorne era. First tank tests showed 9% reduction in resistance compared to Issaquah which is a far more fuel efficient hull than the Super.

Phil Spaulding, indeed, it is a Laurens Zuidweg original, maybe Gary Olsen too.

The state has been through all of this, I suggest you talk to the Construction Master, we both know him, he has been on this project since forever and is my source on the manning projections. You don't need to ask him about the engine crew, differences. The ship is the same as the Issaquah except EMDs. It will have a 3 man crew.

The Coast Guard mood on manning is a function of arrangement, automation, decks of passengers and similar matters. This boat will have fewer deck employees than the Supers, especially now that they are putting a second mate on them. That fact actually tips the labor cost balance even further toward OLY.

Choke, the cost of the ship is in the labor. Seattle labor rates are very high relative to any other shipyard in the country. Our state contract in fact dictates what they will be. That guy at Vigor does not get it, but every person walking around the shipyard who bills to WSF does so at a rate higher than the Staff Master's overtime rate every hour that goes into our ships there is paid at a rate that would put Susie F on the breaking news banner.

Further, Seattle shipyards are not construction yards, they are maintenance yards getting a free lunch from WSF and our passengers. They don't have construction experience beyond that which is directed to WSF.

A new construction yard, a yard that specializes in it, is efficient at it or they would not depend on a subsidy from their state legislature.

The federal subsidy remains 80% of new vessel cost. Our 500 million dollar ships would have cost the state only 100 million in a shipyard as equally inefficient as our own that charged the same price as Todd/Vigor. Not that one exists outside of Washington.

What would you do with 400 million dollars?

[chokai]

Nov 18, 2012 16:55:38 GMT -8 chief said:

Choke, the cost of the ship is in the labor. Seattle labor rates are very high relative to any other shipyard in the country. Our state contract in fact dictates what they will be. That guy at Vigor does not get it, but every person walking around the shipyard who bills to WSF does so at a rate higher than the Staff Master's overtime rate every hour that goes into our ships there is paid at a rate that would put Susie F on the breaking news banner.

I'm familar with the reasons for the extra cost of building up here, there is a reason why Todd failed to land the Burke destroyer contract many years ago. My point is that you cannot compare a 2003 price to a 2008 to 2010 prices due to economic changes that occurred during that time frame and as a result your estimates are off by 15 to 20%. Inflation doesn't disappear on the gulf coast or anywhere else.

The federal subsidy remains 80% of new vessel cost. Our 500 million dollar ships would have cost the state only 100 million in a shipyard as equally inefficient as our own that charged the same price as Todd/Vigor. Not that one exists outside of Washington.

What would you do with 400 million dollars?

Federal tax dollars are not much of a subsidy beyond a possible reduction in debt service should you be able to pay cash up front and not issue bonds. The idea that it's any better for the feds to pay for something than anyone else is a political trick. In fact federal bucks can inversely come with politically motivated restrictions (i.e you must build it in this way) that make taking the money more expensive but few people take this into consideration because they believe the money is "free".

A tax is a tax, you are still paying it and at most you are only pushing around the demographics of who is paying. It's a wash in the end, this year the feds pay for you to build ferries, next year they are paying with "your" money to build a freeway in LA.

As a Washington resident you are paying more. We have the good fortune to live in a state that is a relative economic powerhouse compared to the rest of the country. Averaged over many years we send over 110% to the feds in all taxes and fees of what we get back. That's with our unusually high defense spending here due to the Navy and Boeing, take that out and it's even more wildly off kilter.

[chief]

400 million in federal dollars is not much of a subsidy?

It is to WSF, they use federal dollars all of the time for things not made in Washington, WSDOT uses it for highways. I must be missing something. If the feds don't pay for it the state does or it does not get built. The fed money goes to another state with a worthy cause.

It is not a wash at all. The passengers pay the cost of waste if we can't buy new ships that are fuel and labor efficient. Passengers are the ones getting shafted by the shipyard subsidy crowd. They pay for 75% of all the wasted operating costs via the fare box.

This month Kaleetan burned 50,000 gallons more fuel than the Kitsap on Bremerton run. They had the same number of engine service hours. The Olympic will be the same or better than the Kitsap but carry the vehicle same capacity as Kaleetan.

50,000 gallons is $200,000 dollars. Over 12 months that is 2.4 million dollars of wasted fuel that passengers pay for because we won't take a federal subsidy to build one new ship.

2.4 million dollars times four supers is 9.6 million wasted. A WSF vessel runs 60 years. In that time the Super Class will burn 576 million dollars (2012 fuel cost) more in fuel than an equal number of Olympic class vessels carrying the same cargo.

Isn't this a good use of federal tax dollars, spend half that much on 4 ships so the taxpayers of Washington will save 576 million in fuel and another 300 million in labor over the life of the ship?

[FNS]

Nov 19, 2012 17:01:41 GMT -8 chief said:

The Olympic will be the same or better than the Kitsap but carry the vehicle same capacity as Kaleetan.

It's interesting that they would name a new class of ferries "Olympic". Us old timers know that we had a ferry named OLYMPIC. You would think this class would refer to the 208-foot classic rattle-trap (with all her rattles and quirks that made her crossings neat to behold).

That's why I add (Mountains) next to "Olympic" as these are named after the beautifully attractive mountain range we see, not the old reliable ferry we remember.

One thing for sure, WSF should remove the OLYMPIC's navigation display from the CATHLAMET and move it to the new MV TOKITAE, a vessel likely destined for the Columbia Beach run which was home to the OLY for many years. The star of this thread has touched Columbia Beach one weekend in the spring of 1982 on the Edmonds detour while Mukilteo was being redone for the I-Class.

[chokai]

Chief, we'll be paying for hybrid-Hyak and we'll pay for the 144's. A tax is a tax. Ask for $400M from the feds now and you won't get it next time because of the political negotiations and tit-for-tat involved. And we'll also pay $440M in federal taxes to get that $400M. Finally it will likely come with riders you'll have to meet to get it which I am somewhat leery about. Just ask Sound Transit about thier unneeded/unwanted parking garages.

I completely agree that there would be big long-term benefits to all taxpayers to expediting the 144 build process with federal funds. And while I think you'd save money I continue to be deeply skeptical that you'll get near as good of a deal on the capital costs as you think you'll get. We shall have to see. I really have nothing further to add here.

-----

FerryNut. I miss the old Olympic, I have fond memories of a special grandson/grandfather day that centers on her. :-) I like the idea of major geographic features for classes and the tribal names for the individual boats. It would be fitting for whatever eventually replaces the Jumbos to be the Columbia or Rainier class. On the other hand we could show our sense of humor and have the Ivar Haglund class and name all the boats after native words for clams. The Navy routinely named ammunition ships after volcanos after all. BTW my political gut tells me that Tokitae is initially going to spend a lot more time at Bremerton than Clinton though.

I digress though, I'm off topic. Back to the Hyak for me!

[SolDuc]

From my trip on the Hyak (Orcas>Anacortes), July 8th, 2012:

Native american motif aboard MV Hyak by BrasegaliWA, on Flickr


Hyak life ring by BrasegaliWA, on Flickr

[Steve Rosenow]

They spent a gobsmack of money painting the outside of the hull on that critter, yet never touched the inside of the bulwarks and car deck. Hmph.

Either way I miss the ol' girl. Love the original interior on it! Great shots, Guy!

[BreannaF]

The Hyak was at Edmonds today, and I got to see a ferry in the daylight (a feat this time of year!). Anyway, a few photos:













Would you call that off into the sunset?

[Political Incorrectness]

I was tempted to go up yesterday. I ended up going up for a day trip today.


Hyak by ferrymaniac101, on Flickr


Hyak departing Kingston by ferrymaniac101, on Flickr


Hyak by ferrymaniac101, on Flickr


Hyak at Kingston by ferrymaniac101, on Flickr

[Deleted]

Nice photos, Political Whack-a-mole!

[SolDuc]

Today I did two trips aboard the Hyak and the Yakima. There will be three posts in both the Yakima and the Hyak threads:

Part 1 - Hyak 8:30 to Bremerton:
Taken just when she arrived in Seattle with a good load of commuters:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

Life ring:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

The chair right beside the bridge (don't ask me why it's there)

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

Solarium:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

Nameplate:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

Wake effect (which I love):

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

Empty gallery deck:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

The load. There was nothing in the side wings:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

And finally a bit of the interior:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

[Deleted]

Jan 28, 2013 18:31:59 GMT -8 SolDuc said:

Today I did two trips aboard the Hyak and the Yakima. There will be three posts in both the Yakima and the Hyak threads:

Part 1 - Hyak 8:30 to Bremerton:
Taken just when she arrived in Seattle with a good load of commuters:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

Lovely shoot. When I was in Seattle my family hotel, that we stayed in, was 2.5 minutes a way from the ferry dock. 

[SolDuc]

Part II - Departing Bremerton and from the Yakima.
At harborside fountain park:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

Departing Bremerton. It was again a very light sailing.

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

The "thru shot":

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

The big turn is done, now full ahead to rich passage:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

Passing Restoration Point on Bainbridge:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

Perfect profile shot:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

Away in Rich Passage:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

Arriving at Full speed from Bremerton:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr


MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

Away to the city:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

Last batch to come in around 30 minutes.

[Deleted]

Jan 28, 2013 18:56:32 GMT -8 SolDuc said:

Part II - Departing Bremerton and from the Yakima.
At harborside fountain park:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

Most of the good photos of the Bremerton ferries come from this park. Good photos, from this park that people take of the boats leaving/ in/ or arriving into dock . I like the Super and Jumbo Mark II  class the best in the Washington State ferries fleet.

[SolDuc]

Part III - Harborside Fountain park, prior to 3PM departure: I think I'll have to buy myself some wide lens to get nice shots here.

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr


MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

thru shot:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr


MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr


MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr


MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr


MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr


MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

And finally a little panorama:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

Part IV in less than 2 hours.

[SolDuc]

And finally part IV (for the Hyak), on the 3:00PM Bremerton to Seattle:
Vantage 1968 interior:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

Seagulls:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

Light reflection on a picklefork:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

Reminding us that she is now a San Juan boat:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr


MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

There was something there:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr


MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr


MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr


MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

Sun deck:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr


MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr


MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

And finally at the end of my "On the ferries II", the Hyak at Seattle:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

[Steve Rosenow]

Jan 28, 2013 20:23:52 GMT -8 SolDuc said:

There was something there:

MV Hyak - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr

That's where the emergency generator is located. Those circular ridges are where they welded in steel to cover up the holes that were there in the steel. Before the generators were installed, it looked exactly identical, yet opposite, the gallery deck ramp on the other side of the vessel behind you in this photo.

[SolDuc]

Jan 28, 2013 22:27:29 GMT -8 Steve Rosenow said:

That's where the emergency generator is located. Those circular ridges are where they welded in steel to cover up the holes that were there in the steel. Before the generators were installed, it looked exactly identical, yet opposite, the gallery deck ramp on the other side of the vessel behind you in this photo.

I actually knew that thanks to the Kaleetan thread. The exhaust "pipes" look somewhat awkward as seen from the Gallery deck. I guess they could've put real pipes instead of some kind of smokeproof fabric.

[SolDuc]

Video of the Hyak departing Bremerton:

[SolDuc]

Hyak passing the Yakima at the entry of rich passage:

[Steve Rosenow]

Jan 29, 2013 15:29:29 GMT -8 SolDuc said:

Jan 28, 2013 22:27:29 GMT -8 Steve Rosenow said:

That's where the emergency generator is located. Those circular ridges are where they welded in steel to cover up the holes that were there in the steel. Before the generators were installed, it looked exactly identical, yet opposite, the gallery deck ramp on the other side of the vessel behind you in this photo.

I actually knew that thanks to the Kaleetan thread. The exhaust "pipes" look somewhat awkward as seen from the Gallery deck. I guess they could've put real pipes instead of some kind of smokeproof fabric.

That fabric (actually a protective heat shield) is actually a safety feature that's wrapped around standard steel exhaust pipe. Diesel exhaust puts out extremely high exhaust temperatures, and that insulation serves as a heat shield against someone actually coming in contact with an otherwise bare (and likely searing hot) exhaust pipe.

[Steve Rosenow]

Jan 29, 2013 16:07:21 GMT -8 SolDuc said:

Video of the Hyak departing Bremerton:

That puts me in mind of a time when I was out photographing the Kaleetan from that spot. I don't know what caused it or why they did it, but the master had to've went full ahead right out of the dock. I had no time to get into a good shooting position, because right after they cleared the outer dolphins, they turned hard a'starboard. 

[Steve Rosenow]

Had an opportunity to cross on the Yakima for the first time ever, today. Shot plenty of photos (for which I'll be uploading to my Flickr, and posting a few of the best, here), but this is my best of the Hyak, taken from the Yakima's sun deck.

Felt like 1967 again! (only I wasn't alive, then! LOL)


M.V. Hyak, from the M.V. Yakima by Loowit Imaging - Steve Rosenow, Photographer, on Flickr

By the way, are they ever planning on repainting the inside of the car deck, and replacing some parts?

I noticed that the interior portion of the car deck needs serious help.

[SolDuc]

Jan 31, 2013 22:15:48 GMT -8 Steve Rosenow said:

By the way, are they ever planning on repainting the inside of the car deck, and replacing some parts?

I noticed that the interior portion of the car deck needs serious help.

Also noticed that, and a little painting of the car deck and bulkheads is pretty much needed, and the Interior, while not at the fleet standard is still in good condition and can probably serve until the end of her life without needeing to be replaced.
But the car deck sure needs some work.

[zargoman]

Some recent Hyak pics from Kingston/Edmonds