MV Hyak

[old_wsf_fan]

So last weekend my brother inlaws and I went to the Port Townsend Strange Brew Fest and we all live in and around Seattle. We took the Hyak over to Kinston on our way to P. T. I must say that the Hyak is in really bad shape. It may be too late to do a major overhaul that has been planned but delayed for years now. While in usable condition, she has serious rust and corosion issues, warped decking all over the passenger cabins, and really poor restrooms. Since the 144 boat program is off the ground, and there is talk of allowing out of state bidding and construction again, does anybody really think that this boat would be rebuilt and eventually be the last super left in service?

[Steve Rosenow]

Feb 3, 2013 8:47:48 GMT -8 old_wsf_fan said:

So last weekend my brother inlaws and I went to the Port Townsend Strange Brew Fest and we all live in and around Seattle. We took the Hyak over to Kinston on our way to P. T. I must say that the Hyak is in really bad shape. It may be too late to do a major overhaul that has been planned but delayed for years now. While in usable condition, she has serious rust and corosion issues, warped decking all over the passenger cabins, and really poor restrooms. Since the 144 boat program is off the ground, and there is talk of allowing out of state bidding and construction again, does anybody really think that this boat would be rebuilt and eventually be the last super left in service?

The outside of the curtain plate was recently overhauled, and it, plus the the entire topside, got a new paint job.

As for the inside of the car deck areas and passenger decking on the sun deck, I agree. I would like to see some new steel installed. I don't think she's too far gone. Only thing I'd like to see is she retain her original interior.

[rusty]

The last I heard the Hyak's rebuild-retrofit overhaul includes a new hybrid control system, with new AC drive motors, and one would assume a lot of steel work. I would guess, based on WSF's previous major rebuild history, that the costs will be more than a new vessel.

I love the Hyak, it was the first ferryboat I ever worked, but WSDOT needs to look at capital projects from a cost/value viewpoint, not as a reward to those firms that hire lobbyists to lavish attention on our Legislators.

[SolDuc]

I'll share my thoughts on this:
Does the Hyak look old? Yes it does, and I don't mind it at all, since it reminds us how well crews keep the boat up and running. The interior is in great condition, and I would even say better than the Wenatchee (which is 31 years younger) in terms of usage. Yes, the sun deck and car deck decking is pretty deteriorated, but who cares, since it can carry cars and on the sun deck it isn't so bad that it would make passengers fall or anything.
What would be good? Scrap the Hybrid project, and finish her paint job on the inside and car deck. And if that isn't too expensive, change the wheelhouse windows to the same as the Yakima and Kaleetan. Do the same with the Elwha and try the Hybrid on either a KdT or an Olympic.

[Deleted]

Feb 3, 2013 12:24:13 GMT -8 SolDuc said:

What would be good? Scrap the Hybrid project, and finish her paint job on the inside and car deck. And if that isn't too expensive, change the wheelhouse windows to the same as the Yakima and Kaleetan. Do the same with the Elwha and try the Hybrid on either a KdT or an Olympic.

Yeah I agree with moving the Hybrid project to a newer class. I do not think Elwha wheelhouse windows will get changed . Since, she will be retired by 2028 and will be the first Super to be retired.

[Deleted]

Feb 3, 2013 12:24:13 GMT -8 SolDuc said:

I think the new interior is part of her mid life upgraded. Which, I think her mid life refit will be a waste of tax payers money.

[Steve Rosenow]

I don't see how modifying the pilothouse windows of either the Hyak or Elwha would really improve visibility.

Personally, I much rather prefer the original pilothouse configuration of the Supers over the modified windows anyways. That's partly because of a couple factors:

1.) The pilothouses of the Supers is the exact same width as the Captain's Bridge on Titanic

2.) The pilothouse windows are the exact same size and number as the ones on Titanic, and visually, the original configuration of the Super class carries a small resemblance to Titanic's bridge and A-deck.

All Titanic stuff aside, there's no real reason to modify them. If it's not broke, don't fix it.

Same goes for the interior. The upholstery was recently redone, so it'd seem a waste of money to revamp everything *again* for the sake of change. Leave it as it is, and just tend to the structural needs and paint needs that need to be met. The interior can be left alone.

[SolDuc]

Feb 3, 2013 16:15:25 GMT -8 Steve Rosenow said:

If it's not broke, don't fix it.

I know that I am going against some of my posts earlier in this thread, but I totally agree with this! Technically the Elwha and the Hyak wouldn't need any big refit before the end of their lives. A little bit of paint would be greatly appreciated by the Hyak, but it still well serves as a ferry without it. The most important things (the hull and machinery) are probably in good shape on all the supers and most of the WSF boats.
As long as the boats can get people from place A to place B safely, there is no big problem.

[Deleted]

Feb 3, 2013 16:59:52 GMT -8 SolDuc said:

Feb 3, 2013 16:15:25 GMT -8 Steve Rosenow said:

If it's not broke, don't fix it.

I know that I am going against some of my posts earlier in this thread, but I totally agree with this! Technically the Elwha and the Hyak wouldn't need any big refit before the end of their lives. A little bit of paint would be greatly appreciated by the Hyak, but it still well serves as a ferry without it. The most important things (the hull and machinery) are probably in good shape on all the supers and most of the WSF boats.
As long as the boats can get people from place A to place B safely, there is no big problem.

I disagree with you about changing her interior. I think she needs a new interior but WSF should keep her table tops. The Issaquah class original interior where working well but WSF replaced all vessels in the class interiors with the new interiors.

[Steve Rosenow]

It makes no financial sense to renovate the Hyak's interior given the fact that the upholstery in it was all redone within the last decade or so. The best thing to do with the Hyak is renovate the car deck (new fittings, rust abatement and new paint), and replace the warped steel on the Sun Deck and upper gallery decks.

The interior should be left alone. It's nice to have some originality for a change.

[Deleted]

So, you are saying do not do a mid life upgrade to the Hyak? Would say build one more Olympic Class vessel?

[SolDuc]

Feb 3, 2013 18:40:18 GMT -8 @cheese12345678 said:

So, you are saying do not do a mid life upgrade to the Hyak? Would say build one more Olympic Class vessel?

If the Hyak went through any kind of refit, it would be a "last 15 years" refit rather than a Mid Life refit. The Hyak is in excellent shape compared to any other vessel of the same age, and a total refit would not help at all. Except for a few car deck and sun deck issues stated above by Steve, anything else dumped into the Hyak would be wasted money.
As for the Olympic, yes it would be nice to build 3 or 4 Olympics in the "first wave", but to replace the E-states and Hiyu, not to retire boats that can still serve for several years.

[northwesterner]

Feb 3, 2013 17:30:23 GMT -8 @cheese12345678 said:

I disagree with you about changing her interior. I think she needs a new interior but WSF should keep her table tops. The Issaquah class original interior where working well but WSF replaced all vessels in the class interiors with the new interiors.

Whoa whoa whoa. 

Did you ever actually ride on an Issaquah class ferry with its original interior? Judging by your age and the fact the last one was redone 6 or 7 years ago, I'd guess not.

The original Issaquah class interiors were awful, even in the 80s when they were relatively new. The vinyl seats showed dirt, the tiles wouldn't stay clean, and the look was very plain. The Super class interiors, on the other hand, have held up well. Despite the colors and overall "look" being dated on the Elwha and Hyak (which had new upholstery installed a few years back) the fit and finish is much better than what the Issaquah class had. 

I certainly remember riding the Sealth in the San Juan Islands when I was a senior in college (spring 2006ish) just before her interior was redone. It was awful.

[Steve Rosenow]

Feb 3, 2013 19:37:34 GMT -8 northwesterner said:

Feb 3, 2013 17:30:23 GMT -8 @cheese12345678 said:

I disagree with you about changing her interior. I think she needs a new interior but WSF should keep her table tops. The Issaquah class original interior where working well but WSF replaced all vessels in the class interiors with the new interiors.

Whoa whoa whoa. 

Did you ever actually ride on an Issaquah class ferry with its original interior? Judging by your age and the fact the last one was redone 6 or 7 years ago, I'd guess not.

The original Issaquah class interiors were awful, even in the 80s when they were relatively new. The vinyl seats showed dirt, the tiles wouldn't stay clean, and the look was very plain. The Super class interiors, on the other hand, have held up well. Despite the colors and overall "look" being dated on the Elwha and Hyak (which had new upholstery installed a few years back) the fit and finish is much better than what the Issaquah class had. 

I certainly remember riding the Sealth in the San Juan Islands when I was a senior in college (spring 2006ish) just before her interior was redone. It was awful.

I can vouch for that, as I recall riding the Sealth when she was *BRAND NEW* on the Seattle to Bremerton run.

Let me tell you just how awful that interior was after just one year of service.

[Kahloke]

Fresh pic of Hyak approaching Bremerton yesterday:


Getting back to the current discussion: I partially agree with Steve Rosenow that a complete cabin refresh on Hyak is probably unneeded. That said, I really would like to see them replace the horribly uncomfortable Eames Chairs with the more current angle-back chairs seen in many of the vessels in the fleet now, including Kaleetan and Yakima. They are much more comfortable. The bench seats can remain the same. Heck, even the original fixed round seats in the galley area can remain.

[Barnacle]

Feb 3, 2013 19:37:34 GMT -8 northwesterner said:

Feb 3, 2013 17:30:23 GMT -8 @cheese12345678 said:

I disagree with you about changing her interior. I think she needs a new interior but WSF should keep her table tops. The Issaquah class original interior where working well but WSF replaced all vessels in the class interiors with the new interiors.

Whoa whoa whoa. 

Did you ever actually ride on an Issaquah class ferry with its original interior? Judging by your age and the fact the last one was redone 6 or 7 years ago, I'd guess not.

The original Issaquah class interiors were awful, even in the 80s when they were relatively new. The vinyl seats showed dirt, the tiles wouldn't stay clean, and the look was very plain. The Super class interiors, on the other hand, have held up well. Despite the colors and overall "look" being dated on the Elwha and Hyak (which had new upholstery installed a few years back) the fit and finish is much better than what the Issaquah class had. 

I certainly remember riding the Sealth in the San Juan Islands when I was a senior in college (spring 2006ish) just before her interior was redone. It was awful.

And don't forget the original burlap wallpaper.  Heinous stuff, that.

But there were subtle ways to tell the boats apart by their interiors... the accent stripes in the wallpaper and floors, and the partitions of the "corrals" in the corners of the cabin.  Issaquah was orange, Kittitas was yellow, Kitsap was blue, Cathlamet was brown, Chelan was red, and Sealth was green.

[Steve Rosenow]

I'm not sure about the angle back seats. Are they comfy? Depends on who the person is. To me, I'm not fond of their design because they always seem to catch a lot of dirt. Personally, I've never found the chairs on the Hyak to be uncomfortable. I guess it comes from close to a decade of vintage school bus ownership and restoration with seats that were virtually hard steel with minimal padding. To me, I'm not bothered by them.

That being said, I am not much of a fan of anything that involves getting rid of the original look and feel of the interior, and to me, I very much appreciate the fact that to this day, the Hyak sports the same interior she entered service with. I realize that nothing lasts forever, but realistically speaking, in the "if it isn't broke, why fix it" category, there's fundamentally nothing wrong with the interior as it sits. I do think it's possible to upgrade the Eames chairs with more padding.

However, as far as any upgrade, I would like to see the Hyak receive new steel on the sun deck and the affected areas on the car deck upper wings, and it sorely needs a new paint job and some equipment/fixture replacement on the car deck. That being said, I would like to see some areas refreshed, and perhaps modernized in the interior, specifically the stairwells, completely new tile (would look a lot better), and as for the entire Super class, I'd like to see the ceiling panels painted bright white. The Hyak, Kaleetan and Yakima all seem to've lost their luster over the years and look like a sheet of once-bright newsprint paper that has yellowed over the years. I'd also like to see the trough-like urinals replaced. That goes for every ferry that has them.

[Steve Rosenow]

Feb 4, 2013 17:21:36 GMT -8 Barnacle said:

And don't forget the original burlap wallpaper.  

I'll never forget that nasty stuff. The high school I went to had it. Shelton High School opened in 1974 and by the time I was graduating high school in 1998 huge portions were missing from the walls in some of the classrooms. At last told, it still has it and it's gone straight to hell.

The worst kind of wallpaper to ever install on a boat, let me tellya.

[Deleted]

If Washington State ferries replaces everything on the Hyak it would probably be cheaper to put a new seats on the vessel too. I'm reading post in the Elwha thread about her interior, the same of the Hyak interior, saying it is not the best to seat in for periods of time. 

[SolDuc]

Feb 4, 2013 17:48:37 GMT -8 @cheese12345678 said:

If Washington State ferries replaces everything on the Hyak it would probably be cheaper to put a new seats on the vessel too. I'm reading post in the Elwha thread about her interior, the same of the Hyak interior, saying it is not the best to seat in for periods of time. 

Ok. Maybe it is not best to sit for a long time, but comfort is not the #1 priority of WSF. It is still better than nothing and many places where you can end up staying a long time in (airports, buses...) do not necessarily have super quality seating, yet people don't complain.
The main advantage of both Eames chairs and the regular WSF seats is that they are easily movable. I would see it feasible to reuse seats from another refurbrished boat (I think that the Wenatchee was planned for a reburbrishement this winter, which was cancelled due to the Walla Walla's issues), which would probably be more cost efficient than to buy brand new seats that will cost tons of money. Another possibility is to buy new seats for the Hyak and reuse them in her replacement.

[Steve Rosenow]

I don't understand why we are even refurbishing the Jumbo MkII ferries' interiors when they aren't even at the age to have mid-life upgrades.

And before anyone jumps on the comfort of the Eames chairs, how about the steel benches out in the shelters and sun decks of the Supers? The Jumbos? Every other ferry fleet?

Or the wood "park benches" in the Issaquahs?

The Eames chairs in the Supers are fine.

[Deleted]

Feb 4, 2013 18:00:55 GMT -8 SolDuc said:

Feb 4, 2013 17:48:37 GMT -8 @cheese12345678 said:

If Washington State ferries replaces everything on the Hyak it would probably be cheaper to put a new seats on the vessel too. I'm reading post in the Elwha thread about her interior, the same of the Hyak interior, saying it is not the best to seat in for periods of time. 

Ok. Maybe it is not best to sit for a long time, but comfort is not the #1 priority of WSF. It is still better than nothing and many places where you can end up staying a long time in (airports, buses...) do not necessarily have super quality seating, yet people don't complain.
The main advantage of both Eames chairs and the regular WSF seats is that they are easily movable. I would see it feasible to reuse seats from another refurbrished boat (I think that the Wenatchee was planned for a reburbrishement this winter, which was cancelled due to the Walla Walla's issues), which would probably be more cost efficient than to buy brand new seats that will cost tons of money. Another possibility is to buy new seats for the Hyak and reuse them in her replacement.

Why not just retire her with the rest of the Super class and build another Olympic class?

[SolDuc]

Feb 4, 2013 18:05:49 GMT -8 Steve Rosenow said:

I don't understand why we are even refurbishing the Jumbo MkII ferries' interiors when they aren't even at the age to have mid-life upgrades.

Well, they actually need it. If you were to take a trip on the Wenatchee today, you would see that her benches and chairs are showing more wear and tear than the Hyak. The Puyallup is fine, but for the Wenatchee and Tacoma, it's mainly due to operating on the busiest passenger run of the system, and having their seats used ~30 minutes/crossing. Given 4/5 busy commute sailings per boat plus mid-day passengers. That gives seats used for 3-5 hours each day. I'm not sure that any other boat gets that close, even at Bremerton or Edmonds.

[SolDuc]

Feb 4, 2013 18:13:50 GMT -8 @cheese12345678 said:

Why not just retire her with the rest of the Super class and build another Olympic class?

That was the original plan that almost everyone had in mind...

[Deleted]

Feb 4, 2013 18:16:46 GMT -8 SolDuc said:

Feb 4, 2013 18:13:50 GMT -8 @cheese12345678 said:

Why not just retire her with the rest of the Super class and build another Olympic class?

That was the original plan that almost everyone had in mind...

It seems to be the smartest move for the state to make to build another Olympic Class. A mid-life refit for a 46 year old vessel that will last for another 20 years, not a good investment, build another ship that will last 60 years a good investment. I do not know why Translink needs to build another SeaBus, refit the Burrard Otter she seems in really good shape.