Neil
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Post by Neil on Dec 3, 2023 20:51:15 GMT -8
BC Ferries' Quinitsa en route from Buckley Bay to Denman Island circa 1990 [photographer unknown, collection of Capt Bob Gentles] I am fairly sure that this photo is of the Buckley Bay - Denman run but I just might be wrong. I am sure that Neil , or someone else, will set me straight. That does look like Denman West... I'm trying to think of what the public dock to the south of the ferry berth looked like thirty something years ago, but I think that structure might fit as well.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Dec 3, 2023 20:47:43 GMT -8
I did a round trip on the Heron today departing Tsawwassen at 10am and returning from Swartz Bay at 1230pm. It was an enjoyable trip and one thing that surprised me was that they were serving beer and wine in the cafeteria with all the appropriate signage posted around the ship. I didn't think they'd go to the trouble for just a 2 weekend stint. The chief steward was very friendly and says they want to get a good idea of how a Salish works on that route to give more flexibility in the future. He mentioned what we've noticed already...the sailing time is usually around 1h45m as opposed to 2 hours. He said one caveat is that the Swartz Bay overhead walkways don't fit the Salish class. What I particularly enjoyed was lunch on the way back...a non-White Spot cheeseburger! Very tasty IMHO. You occasionally see a route one sailing clocking at 80 to 85 minutes, so I guess if they pushed a Salish vessel to it's best 15 knot operating speed, they could do 105 minutes, perhaps also aided by wind and tide. That is interesting that they were serving alcohol. The thing with route one is the high level of foot passengers... I wonder what a Salish vessel is like at its maximum pax capacity, in terms of seating, particularly when BC Ferries says they're limiting the commercial traffic on those sailings, meaning more passenger vehicles.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Dec 2, 2023 21:45:15 GMT -8
Pardon me if this topic has been discussed before, but I’m beginning to see why BC Ferries has been plagued by so many issues: New hires cannot realistically be expected to survive indefinitely in their meagre work conditions. They begin their employment on a casual basis, and a condition of employment is that they must always be available to work at short notice (several hours in most cases). Additionally, being incapable of meeting that condition of employment on three subsequent occasions leads to a termination. They’re also working in the absence of benefits, and the only way to secure a permanent position is if someone ahead of them with more seniority decides to leave. In many instances, you could be waiting many years, and a four year wait isn’t uncommon. The condition of employment precludes working elsewhere, and BC Ferries cannot guarantee any shifts. So, given the fact that the living wage on most of the southern coast is approximately $25-$27/hr, and new hires would be expected to work with 100% uncertainty with no benefits for upwards of four years or more, making the equivalent of minimum wage with their reduced schedule, what’s their incentive to stay? You could just as easily get full time job elsewhere that pays as much, with benefits and job security. When you consider that most maritime employers are having a hard time finding employees, it's a bit complicated applying blame to one company, but from what I understand, BC Ferries is indeed not the most inviting place for young people to begin their careers. I think they pay about 20% less to start than Seaspan Ferries, but then Seaspan also has very few jobs in comparison. I posted a while back about a survey of young people embarking on trades training, which showed that very few even had a maritime job on their radar. Somehow, a career on the water or thereabouts has to be made to look more attractive, and you point out some very tangible reasons why people wouldn't want to start off with BC Ferries. Our coastal transit system is really big these days on polling the public on all sorts of aspects of their operations, but I think the reasons for a lack of new recruits are fairly clear, and they need to work on that. Working outside in the rain... maybe not so easily solved.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Dec 1, 2023 22:22:06 GMT -8
From BC Ferries on pronunciation: Hello there. The phonetic pronunciation is Pun–a–la–hutt. You hear the pronunciation here: ow.ly/8AJE50QeEKh . ^ed Thanks for posting that, Dane. My best read on that is Pun-AK-lakut, but the second syllable is more like acch, than ak. First nations languages are full of glottal stops, different tongue actions, and backthroat intonations that we anglos aren't used to. Hopefully we can do justice to what they want this boat to be called.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 30, 2023 21:58:26 GMT -8
The Salish Heron is going to be on the Tsawwassen to Swartz Bay Route in December??? i just checked, you are right! and its already doing it td, right now. neat experience if you are able to catch one of these rare 2hr rt.1 sailings. (i think it replaces everything QNW was doing until the 8th) I guess I'm one of the few people on here who've done a Salish trip from Tsawwassen to Swartz Bay, but that was a Tsawwassen-Galiano-Mayne-Pender-Swartz Bay crossing that then went on to Long Harbour. I think that still operates once a week in the summer.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 28, 2023 22:25:43 GMT -8
Jeez... a 'niche' sub-category for service notices. Who knew? I'm thinking this is the first time in fifty years that a vessel this size did route one, and the last time, it would have been the Queen of Tsawwwassen or the Queen of Sidney, both capable of keeping the schedule. The Salish class can't. A few years ago, this would have piqued my interest for a fan trip, but I just don't find the Salish vessels interesting enough. I have to give BCFS a little 'attaboy' for thinking a bit outside the box and restoring at least some of the lost capacity by putting an intermediate class vessel on the route. The Salish Heron will be better than no sailing at all. Absolutely agree. When that Liberal Party guy with the spiky hair was in charge of ferries, all we would have heard about was the need to keep costs in line. Now, you have to give BC Ferries credit for using the assets they have, insufficient though they might be. EDIT: 'Spiky hair' guy's name- Todd Stone. Marvel Comics couldn't have come up with a better one.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 28, 2023 21:02:39 GMT -8
Click "View" in the yellow Service Advisories board at the top of the website. I check this frequently, it was issued this morning so I'm surprised nobody posted about it yet! I never noticed that big yellow banner! I am signed up for the service notice emails for every route but I guess they don’t email the service advisories. Jeez... a 'niche' sub-category for service notices. Who knew? I'm thinking this is the first time in fifty years that a vessel this size did route one, and the last time, it would have been the Queen of Tsawwwassen or the Queen of Sidney, both capable of keeping the schedule. The Salish class can't. A few years ago, this would have piqued my interest for a fan trip, but I just don't find the Salish vessels interesting enough.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 27, 2023 17:00:44 GMT -8
I believe berth 3 gets used. That would make sense because the Skeena Queen uses berth #3 regualary and that is a more intermeditate vessel like the salish boats. Quite a difference in the depth of the vessels, and somewhat correspondingly, the water they require. Salish class 6.6 metres, Skeena Queen 5.5, ' Cumberland, 4.4.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 25, 2023 19:26:41 GMT -8
Salish Orca is passing by Departure Bay this morning, heading up island. The Salish Heron has passed the baton back to the Salish Orca on Route 17 and is now repositioning south in the strait. The Salish Orca has been the regular Comox based ship since she was delivered. I'm wondering whether BC Ferries has been able to keep the four Salish class vessels identical, in terms of crewing and interchangeability, or if any distinctions have taken place. I'm guessing that they've done their best to keep to the original plan...
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 23, 2023 22:23:31 GMT -8
True but future generations might start to see through car culture of Canada and America. I think future will be interesting to see what happens to fleet. I think BBF that you may well be right about this, but it will probably take many years before a significant change in attitudes occur. Big cities are choking on vehicles. Does not matter if they are EV or ICE. At some point travel within major cities and between cities that are relatively close to one another will shift more to public transit. That is why I think the E&N corridor on Vancouver Island needs to be kept in tack. Trains & passenger focused ferry systems will make more & more sense. Yes, the jury is still out on this one. My younger daughter lives right at Surrey Central, in a 260 square foot rental. We argue about road and transit infrastructure, and she refers to me as "you car people". Ten, fifteen years from now, travel to and from the Island might look completely different. Even more immediately, Hullo might identify a huge part of the travelling public as not being wedded to cars... I doubt it, but, time will tell. Those of us who are old enough to have grown up in the Socred era of highway expansion, even if we didn't share the vision, might not be open enough to how the next generation might choose to get around.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 23, 2023 21:11:41 GMT -8
I am looking at a tall pointy mountain on the skyline directly above the Tachek's anchor. (Go to the largest size available on the Flickr link) I think that I recognize that mountain and I don't think that it can be seen from Swartz ... It could also be Hornby or Denman Islands. No, it's not. The geography doesn't match. Quinsam came into service at Gabriola when she was launched, in 1982. I can't imagine a scenario where Tachek would have been there in summer, ten years later. It's particularly difficult following Tachek's path after she was displaced from the Texada run by the North Island Princess. She was the vagabond of the fleet, popping up everywhere. I even remember a news story about Bowen Islanders complaining when she showed up there, even though it was only for an evening. She was Hornby's winter ferry for many years. I also recall doing a fan trip on Tachek one summer when the Queen of Nanaimo was down, on route nine. There was no other vessel available, and the plucky little ship was doing a run over to Mayne and Galiano and back. The most recent ferry book I acquired was about the Mayne Queen, recounting her long service in the Gulf Islands. Tachek might never have attained as much affection in any one place, but I'm not sure any BC Ferries vessel had a wider variety of service... particularly when you consider how small she is.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 21, 2023 23:25:36 GMT -8
What is the foot passenger ticket cutoff time for route 1? I can't find it anywhere on the BC Ferries website. Right there in the schedule... "Check in times without a reservation"... ten minutes before sailing time. I think that's the official cutoff for all routes.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 18, 2023 21:33:26 GMT -8
Had to be. Joined BCF fleet in 1985 from Ministry of Highways. Made it into the Expo livery, with Expo86 logo. We know her career at BCF was very very short. What operated Comox in 1986? flic.kr/p/e8KHHZ Queen of Sidney took over, IIRC ... No vessel named for that route in the schedule, so you're likely right. In the Gulf Islands, Queen of Nanaimo sailed out of Long Harbour, with Queen of Tsawwassen and Queen of The Islands on route five.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 18, 2023 17:54:00 GMT -8
Just some notes from summer 1985...
Route nine: Queen of Tsawwassen. Route five: Mayne Queen, Quinitsa. (Vesuvius Queen was the number two boat on that run in the spring, taking 95 minutes to do Swartz to Saturna.) Fulford: Bowen Queen. Vesuvius: Vesuvius Queen. Cortes: 16 car ferry, either the Nimpkish or Nicola. Quadra: Quadra Queen II Denman: Kahloke Hornby: Albert J. Savoie Thetis: Kulleet, Klatawa, or Klitsa. Texada: North Island Princess. Comox: 130 cars... Princess of Vancouver?
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 18, 2023 17:39:40 GMT -8
A few posts back, I said that I thought Hornby had a k class vessel in summer by maybe 1980, but looking at the summer '85 schedule, it says that Hornby has a 16 car vessel, which would have been the 'Savoie. Maybe that's wrong, or maybe I was wrong. In any event, that have been the very last of the 'Savoie's summer service there.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 15, 2023 22:22:34 GMT -8
Rough sailing for Hullo this weekend.
Minor weather damage? Lots of logs out there the last week. If I were to speculate that's the first culprit I'd be looking at. I haven't followed Hullo closely but has anyone seen how these vessels handle beam seas (which they will see a lot of for 6 months of the year)? I spent a year relieving on a catamaran (the venerable North Island Princess) and they are special animals when it comes to swell... I have no horse in this race but the word "reliability" is being thrown around a lot on this forum and on the street - even among "normies". I love the basic idea of harbour to harbour transit but if customers are having plans scuttled routinely then the business model begins to fall apart. I'm reminded of off-season flights from Comox to Vancouver Harbour with Harbour Air when I was a Cadet at BCIT - I tried to take advantage of this on multiple occasions but only made it to my intended destination 1/4 of the time. I don't think they bother in the winter anymore. Anyway, if these guys are going to survive they'll need to crack that code, regardless of how deep their pockets are. In regards to the drydocking of the other vessel - I have some sympathy as a Master of several Damen built Island Class vessels over the last three years. Part of the deal from the shipyard is customer support when the ships enter service. The shipping company, whether it be BCF or Hullo will want to take full advantage of that while the ships are under warranty. October/November for an out of service period actually makes sense... until your single other vessel is sidelined. I've been really cynical about cross-strait passenger services, but I've been more willing to sit back and cut this latest venture some slack. But... your perspective carries some weight, and we'll see if their model, and the reliability of their schedule, earns Hullo a long term role in getting people from Nanaimo to the mainland and back.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 14, 2023 22:57:26 GMT -8
If the Cumberland or the Salish were to break now, who else would do the route? Legally Skeena Queen, and / or Quinsam. After getting the opinion of BC Ferries' legal counsel, I presume?
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 14, 2023 21:08:34 GMT -8
Tachek is in my notes from '91-'99 as the #3 boat on Route 5, with Nicola as the spare to Tachek for that entire decade more or less. That is from BC Ferries' annual reports of the time. That's got to be a pretty rare assignment - cool photo catch. I was looking for a scanned timetable from that era on here but I couldn't find one. It was a pretty limited schedule of service, peak days only, I believe. When Bowen Queen began operating route 9a that effectively replaced the slot for the #3 boat on route 5, right? Route five had a lot of minor vessels subbing in from one time to another, in a variety of limited roles. The Vesuvius Queen did runs between Swartz, Fulford and Otter Bay, and in the mid '80s, the slowpoke Quinitsa joined in. I can't imagine that the Nicola ever was more than an emergency option. Still... from a tiresome old guy/ferry fan's perspective, weren't those times more interesting? Now you've got nothing more than the efficient ' Cumberland/Salish class combo, delivering needed capacity. Phooey, and double phooey.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 12, 2023 22:43:20 GMT -8
Albert J. Savoie c1986 - photographer unknown (Capt Bob Gentles collection) The location for this photo is likely the run between Denman & Hornby Islands where this vessel spent much of its working life. It looks like it was fitted with a "mouth retainer", do you know anything about that, Neil ?
I'm afraid I don't. I started going to Hornby regularly around 1980, and I think even by then the ' Savoie was just the winter vessel. Didn't ride her much. My most vivid memory was a wild return trip to Cortes when she was still a Highways vessel, and they didn't cancel sailings unless things were really dangerous.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 12, 2023 22:36:05 GMT -8
For A successful retail outlet it is dependent on “location, location, location”. For a transportation operation for which there are alternatives, “reliabilty, reliability, reliability” should be paramount. Hulo is failing badly. How long has the vessel with “the issue” been sitting around without repair work being carried out, weeks I am told. Hulo must get their act together, and soon. Most reports I've seen indicate that Hullo's passenger count is pretty healthy for most sailings. That being said, they operate fairly small vessels that are prone to getting bounced around on rough weather crossings. This is a new venture that I'm pretty intrigued by, and their chance of success isn't really going to be clear for a while yet. The fact that BC Ferries puts so many people off with frequent cancellations with their huge vessels might cause Hullo's clientele to cut them more slack than you're willing to. Time will tell. One thing that distinguishes this venture from previous efforts- they apparently have the financial resources to really give the market a proper test over time.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 10, 2023 22:44:06 GMT -8
BC Ferries' minor vessel M/V Klitsa - circa 1990 - location & photographer unknown (Capt Bob Gentles collection). This vessel served for many years on the Chemainus - Thetis - Penelakut Islands route.
I got this photo from a friend who in turn got it from the widow of a one-time BCF Captain named Bob Gentles. At the time he retired he was given a photo montage of all the vessels he had served on. We don't know the origin of these photos or who was the photographer. Perhaps someone here might know ... They may have come from the BCF corporate office. I will be posting more photos of other vessels, all from the Expo livery years.
I'm wondering if the land in the background is too low to be Denman. I do remember that before Kahloke became the regular Hornby ferry, a smaller K class boat was on the run in summer. Also, Hornby photographer Bob Cain has a huge cache of ferry photos, many of them chronicling Denman and Hornby boats. He shows Klatawa on the Denman run sometime in the mid '80s. www.rcainphoto.com/category/hornby-island-scenics/ferries/
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 9, 2023 22:19:11 GMT -8
For those of you who have traveled on Hullo, did you receive an email to do a survey? I received one today. I suggested that they use their social media better for informing their clientele about sailing cancellations, etc. instead of gladhanding. I'm not clear on your meaning, here... has Hullo been cancelling sailings with no prior warning?
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 6, 2023 21:03:00 GMT -8
Sad news to report this past weekend. The R.J. Breadner sank in Sechelt Inlet the evening of November 4th. Article from: The PeakOh my... that is sad. I can't find it right now, but the Hornby Island history book has a picture of Albert Savoie being presented with a cake in the shape of that vessel, maybe at his retirement. The Albert J. Savoie took over from the Lorraine S., which had been built by the Savoies, at Phipps Point, on the island. She represented quite an improvement in service; from six to sixteen cars capacity. I don't know if she had a regular route after Hornby. She may have been a relief vessel.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Oct 29, 2023 19:50:41 GMT -8
I think part of the reason this is rightly a relevant topic is that these three are major vessels, which creates an environment where mechanical failures are far higher profile than similar failures on other ships. They are additionally vulnerable by the fact that there is no 'spare ratio' for the major fleet, meaning that any mechanical issue that results in the ship being unable to sail, results directly in lost service until the ship is back online. Media outlets in Vancouver, Victoria, Nanaimo and elsehwere have been tuned to these failures, and report on them. However they are far less likely to report on sailing cancelations of, say, the Tachek, unless there was some event of significance that had ripple effects across the system. Issues with the Coastals have been making news here in Prince George, which tells you something. These three ships carry a substantial portion of traffic between some of the provinces largest urban centres and the public has a fair expectation that they should be reliable. I think that, in hindsight, BCF will be reviewing some of the asset management decisions with regard to the major fleet, and hopefully try to move forward on a plan where we have a fleet with greater resilience. This is a really difficult topic for laypeople like us to comment on knowingly. Two points that Dane makes are: We don't know what commitment BC Ferries has to regular maintenance, and, the problems that the Coastals have been prone to are perhaps more directed at manufacturers/suppliers of Coastal engineering systems than the shipbuilder. We don't know that. Flensburger did become insolvent a few years ago. Perhaps that was a result of covid, or competition from Asian yards. Or problems with their newbuilds? I have no idea. Ships break down. Hullo has had their teething problems. WSF, AMHS, and countless other marine passenger systems let their customers down on a regular basis. BC Ferries has regular breakdowns, in vessels new and old. I don't know if this is due to poor building, poor maintenance, and perhaps there's a misguided public expectation about the performance of heavily used vessels in marine environments? I know that the last few years, I've had little faith that my reservation was actually going to get me where I need to go, when I need to be there. Whether it's crew shortages, weather, or breakdowns, we can't count on BC Ferries, and it's food for thought as to why.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Oct 27, 2023 11:23:44 GMT -8
From the article: Schedule-writing is a long-term process and one hampered by the fact that since June, the WSF’s single position for planning schedules has been vacant. They’re advertising the job, Rodero said, but it’s a niche role that few people have the skills to take on.... but some ferry fans will tell you differently. "Hey, won't don't they just move this boat here, and that boat there, and add more sailings?"
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